Fetal Puberty

Organisms

2011-04-03T16:20:00.000-07:00

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You: How do you feel about abortion?

Stranger: pro

Stranger: abortion is made of win

Stranger: :D

You: Why?

Stranger: it is cheating life itself, in the words of Eric Cartman

Stranger: i feel no reason to be against it

You: So is murder.

Stranger: no

Stranger: that is ending life

You: So is abortion.

Stranger: cheating it is disallowing it in the first place

Stranger: abortion is not ending life

You: You're thinking of contraception.

You: Abortion ends a life.

Stranger: no

Stranger: it prevents life from beginning

You: abor·tion noun \ə-ˈbȯr-shən\
Definition of ABORTION

1
: the termination of a pregnancy after, accompanied by, resulting in, or closely followed by the death of the embryo or fetus: as

Stranger: and personally, i dont even care if it is murder

You: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/abortion

Stranger: it is not a self aware organism

You: Contraception prevents a life from beginning.

Stranger: it is a group of cells

You: So? It's still alive.

Stranger: so yes it is murder

You: Cells are units of life.

Stranger: but so is taking antibiotics

Stranger: so you go to hell for taking cough medicine?

Stranger: is that what youre saying?

You: So you have to be self-aware to have rights?

Stranger: so you disable your immune system?

Stranger: to save all those little single celled organisms who are living off of you?

Stranger: all the little bugs?

You: Are you saying only self-aware human beings have rights?

Stranger: no

Stranger: I am saying that people, self aware or not

Stranger: do not have rights

Stranger: you only have what you think you should have

Stranger: what you choose to have

Stranger: what you CAN and WILL take

Stranger: as a right

Stranger: the US army has spent years murdering people in afghanistan

Stranger: that is supported by christians

You: So is it okay to kill a newborn, who has no concept of "rights", and thus cannot claim any?

You: I don't give a crap what Christians support.

Stranger: yes

Stranger: and its not a newborn

Stranger: it is a foetus

You: I wasn't asking about a fetus.

You: I asked about a newborn.

You: Is it okay to kill a newborn?

Stranger: it is ok to kill anything that could do you harm

Stranger: I mean, shit, it happens in the animal kingdom all the time

Stranger: it is a natural process

Stranger: Lions will kill a lioness's cubs so she will be open to mating

Stranger: it is NATURAL

You: So there would be nothing wrong with just going around and shooting up a local preschool? Someone who did that should face no reprocussions?

Stranger: Depends entirely why they did it

Stranger: if it were a preschool in afghanistan

Stranger: where the taliban were hiring childrent

Stranger: who would be raised to fight

Stranger: and shoot

Stranger: and kill

Stranger: then yes

Stranger: it would be alright

Stranger: everything is subject to perspective

You: Why? What's wrong with what the Taliban are doing?

Stranger: what, raising children to fight?

You: According to you, it's totally natural to kill people.

Stranger: oh yes it is

You: How can you judge the Taliban as wrong?

Stranger: I never said it was wrong

Stranger: but it is in our nature to save ourselves at the cost of others

Stranger: to make it so that there is no competition

Stranger: hence, eliminate the opposition

You: Should a mother be allowed to kill her four-month-old child to make her life easier?

Stranger: well, it would be preferable to have an abortion before hand (WHICH IS WHY ABORTION IS THERE DUUUUUUUH), or to drop the kid off at an orphanage

Stranger: but, yes, if it were dependant on the survival of the mother, yes

Stranger: again, this is something natural

Stranger: i mean, if the mother died anyway, the child would die anyway

You: Why would it be preferable to have an abortion or drop the kid at an orphanage?

Stranger: because that would limit the suffering of the child with the same outcome for the mother

Stranger: I am not pro-suffering

Stranger: i am just anti-illogical

You: But suffering is natural.

Stranger: suffering is natural

Stranger: but so is the base instinct to avoid suffering at any cost

Stranger: that is why people feel pain

Stranger: and fear

Stranger: :/

You: And so is the base instinct not to kill your offspring.

Stranger: USE LOGIC PLEASE

Stranger: UNTIL IT PUTS YOUR LIFE IN DANGER

Stranger: as proven by the points above

You: The mother's life is not put at danger by the four-month-old, but you still said she can kill him.

Stranger: I said if it put the mothers life in danger

Stranger: IF YOU COULD PLEASE TRY READING

Stranger: :/

Stranger: durr

You: You said she could kill the child if it was dependent on her.

You: You said nothing about her life being in danger.

Stranger: on her survival

Stranger: dependant on her survival

Stranger: QUOTE

Stranger: :

Stranger: but, yes, if it were dependant on the survival of the mother, yes

Stranger: if the mother's survival depended on it

Stranger: DURR

You: "If it were dependent on the survival of the mother" and "if the mother's survival depended on it" are different things.

Stranger: no they arent

You: In fact, they're opposites.

Stranger: same thing phrased differently

You: There's a difference between "A depends on B" and "B is dependent on A"

Stranger: pah

Stranger: whatever

Stranger: my point still stands

You: If her life didn't depend on killing him, should she be allowed to?

Stranger: it doesnt mean I was wrong

Stranger: it depends on the situation

Stranger: if the child were to suffer needlessly before dying anyway, then yes

Stranger: it is RELATIVE TO PERSPECTIVE

You: The child is a healthy child; she just wants to kill him to make her life easier.

Stranger: in what way easier?

You: She doesn't have to take care of him anymore.

Stranger: what way would she kill him?

Stranger: would it suffer?

You: Not for long.

Stranger: then, well, if she has the stones to do it herself, then yes

Stranger: as you say

Stranger: there is a base instince

Stranger: instinct to preserve the life of the child

You: She tried to smother him.

Stranger: if she can do it yes

You: She should be allowed to?

Stranger: it takes a lot of willpower to overcome the mothering instinct

Stranger: yes

Stranger: why not?

You: Because she tried to murder her son!

Stranger: so?

You: So that's wrong!

Stranger: it makes it more of a crime than murdering a complete stranger in the name of your country?

Stranger: for reasons that someone else chooses?

You: I'm not for murdering foreigners either!

Stranger: it is not your place to tell people what to do or why

Stranger: you cannot force your opinions on other people

Stranger: just because you see it as right

Stranger: it doesnt make it right

Stranger: logic and reason should overcome the teachings of a society wrapped in bubbles and sunshine

Stranger: the world is a cruel harsh place

You: If someone decided to run into an elementary school, rape the kids, slowly torture the teachers, and set the place on fire, there would be nothing wrong with that?

Stranger: there would be a lot wrong with that

Stranger: that is a goal of hatred and rage

Stranger: of inflicting pain

Stranger: I said earlier that I do not support SUFFERING

You: Should they be allowed to do it?

Stranger: No

You: Why not?

Stranger: because that is an agenda of inflicting suffering and pain needlessly

Stranger: it is illogica

Stranger: illogical

Stranger: and stupid

You: According to you.

You: Why is it your place to tell people what to do or why?

Stranger: it isnt

You: You can't force your opinions on other people.

Stranger: it is my place to say what is logical or not

Stranger: because logic is basic

Stranger: like maths

Stranger: a universal absolute

You: You said he shouldn't be allowed to do that.

Stranger: Im not forcing it

Stranger: im not stopping anyone from doing

Stranger: it

Stranger: im not going out of my way to

Stranger: stop them

You: Oh, right, I misread.

Stranger: I just think that they shouldnt

Stranger: Im not saying that I wont allow them to

You: Wait, no I read it right.

You: You: Should they be allowed to do it?
Stranger: No

You: You said they shouldn't be allowed to do it.

Stranger: SHOULD THEY BE

Stranger: SHOULD

Stranger: HYPOTHETICAL

Stranger: it is a question of given that you could choose for it not to happen or for it to happen

Stranger: not ''would you force them not to''

You: If they did do it, should they face consequences?

Stranger: Yes

Stranger: because it is NOT NESSESSARY

Stranger: there is a law

Stranger: ''what is nessessary, is legal''

Stranger: nessessary

Stranger: that is not nessessary

You: Neither is abortion.

Stranger: it is not something in which your life would hang in the balance if it did or did not happen

Stranger: and abortion can be

You: I'm not saying I'm against life-saving emergency abortions.

Stranger: you said abortion in general

You: 99% of abortions aren't.

Stranger: is it now ok to decide WHEN abortion is ok?

Stranger: thats rather hypocritical dont you think?

You: You're the one who said murder is okay WHEN it's necessary.

Stranger: yes

Stranger: and I said that from the beginning

Stranger: at the beginning of this conversation

Stranger: you said abortion is murder

Stranger: and murder is wrong

You: So aren't you a hypocrite?

Stranger: ergo

Stranger: abortion is wrong

Stranger: but OH WAIT

Stranger: NOW

Stranger: its oh, abortion is wrong EXCEPT WHEN

Stranger: dot dot dot

Stranger: HYPOCRITE

You: When did I say abortion was murder?

Stranger: and no

Stranger: right about here

Stranger: So is murder.
You: no
You: that is ending life
Stranger: So is abortion.
You: cheating it is disallowing it in the first place
You: abortion is not ending life
Stranger: You're thinking of contraception.
Stranger: Abortion ends a life.
You: no
You: it prevents life from beginning
Stranger: abor·tion noun ə-ˈbȯr-shən\nDefinition of ABORTION

1
: the termination of a pregnancy after, accompanied by, resulting in, or closely followed by the death of the embryo or fetus: as

Stranger: there

You: I said it ended a life.

You: I didn't say it was murder.

Stranger: which you called murder

Stranger: ending a life is murder apparently

You: Squares, rectangles.

Stranger: ''so is murder'' ''so is abortion''

Stranger: you alikened them to the same thing

Stranger: gave them the same definition

Stranger: made them out to be equal

You: Abortion and murder are both ending life, but that doesn't mean abortion is murder.

You: Riddle me this, is an apple an orange?

Stranger: one, dont say riddle me this

Stranger: it is sad

Stranger: :/

Stranger: and two, likening two things to one another or equivilising two things to one another, especially in the manner you were, is IMPLYING that they were the same thing

Stranger: and you were implying for the sake of your argument

Stranger: and I know

You: I implied nothing. You inferred.

Stranger: IMPLYING is not the same as saying

Stranger: but hey

Stranger: dont be pedantic

You: Apples and oranges are both fruits. Does that mean that apples are oranges or that oranges are apples?

You: No.

Stranger: but they are both fruits

You: Abortion is homicide, and in some cases homicide is not wrong.

You: And abortion and murder are both taking life.

You: That doesn't mean abortion is murder.

Stranger: ha

Stranger: now youre arguing my side of the argument for me

Stranger: this is awesome

You: No, I'm not.

You: I'm just saying you're arguing against a strawman.

Stranger: no

Stranger: im arguing against an idiot

You: Abortion is an act of homicide. Like all homicide, it is sometimes wrong and sometimes not.

You: If it is to save your life, like homicide in general, it is sad but acceptable.

You: Otherwise, it's wrong.

Stranger: THAT WAS MY ARGUMENT JACKASS

You: Okay, it looks like we're misunderstanding each other. :/

Stranger: no

Stranger: looks like YOU misunderstood me

Stranger: and then tried to outwit me

Stranger: and make me look a tool

You: You misunderstood my point about murder.

Stranger: but poorly applying ethics

You: How do you feel about abortion that is not done to save the mother's life?

Stranger: if it is to end a child that will suffer

Stranger: pro

Stranger: frankly, im just generally pro abortion

Stranger: fuck it

Stranger: not my problem

Stranger: im not gunna stop people doing to their body what they want to do

You: The fetus isn't their body, though; the fetus is another organism.

Stranger: which is inside their bodyt

You: Yes.

Stranger: the fetus is

Stranger: AT THAT POINT

Stranger: a parasite

You: "Inside" and "part of" are not the same thing.

Stranger: and it is part of at that point too

Stranger: it shares the same circulatory system

You: That's not true.

Stranger: it is

Stranger: thats what the ambilical chord is for duh

You: Nutrient exchange occurs through the placenta.

Stranger: indeed it does

Stranger: but before a heart is formed

Stranger: the ovum depends entirely upon mother's nutrients

You: Nutrients, yes.

You: And the nutrients come from her circulatory system.

Stranger: so it is a part of her body

You: They do not, however, share a circulatory system.

Stranger: just like a cancerous tumor

Stranger: they do at that point

Stranger: until the foetus develops a circulatory system of its own

You: The mother's blood never enters the fetus, only the nutrients.

Stranger: the blood never enters muscle tissue either

Stranger: that process occours by diffusion too

Stranger: does that mean a muscle does not share the circulatory system with the organism?

You: Are you denying that the embryo is an organism?

Stranger: no

Stranger: all cells are organisms

You: No, they aren't.

Stranger: every cell is a seperate organism

Stranger: yes they are

Stranger: SINGLE CELLED ORGANISMS

You: Yes, but not all cells are organisms.

You: Some cells are part of organisms.

You: I am an organism. My thumb is not.

Stranger: how are you defining organsim right now?

Stranger: because the organelles in a cell are the cell's organs if you want to be pedantic

Stranger: which makes all cells organisms

You: No, they aren't.

You: They're cells, parts of a larger organism.

Stranger: so youre classing organism as a creature made up of lots of systems built up of seperate organs?

You: I'm not here to teach you 7th grade biology.

Stranger: im checking to what level youre classing organism

Stranger: I do A level biology

You: The fetus is not part of the mother.

Stranger: it is up to a certain stage of development

You: The fetus is dependent on her, yes.

You: But not a part of her.

Stranger: until it develops its own systems

Stranger: it is not an organism

Stranger: and until it becomes a seperate organism it is a part of the mother

Stranger: therefore it is the mother's right

Stranger: and even AFTER it becomes an organism

You: The fetus is a separate organism from conception. This is BASIC SCIENCE.

Stranger: by the points I have just made, no it is not

Stranger: Organism is a creature made up of lots of seperate systems

You: An organism that is dependent on another is still an organism

Stranger: if the creature does not have systems

Stranger: it is not an organism

Stranger: by your own BASIC SCIENCE DEFINITION

You: You're putting words in my mouth.

Stranger: a body made up of organs

Stranger: that is the definition of an organism

You: You said that, not me.

Stranger: that is THE DEFINITION

Stranger: THE ACTUAL DEFINITION

Stranger: without organs

Stranger: it is NOT an organism

Stranger: if it is not an organism

You: zygote
The single-celled organism that results from the joining of the egg and sperm.

http://www.plannedparenthood.org/health-topics/glossary-4338.htm#z

Stranger: it is a part of the mother

Stranger: that is the SINGLE CELLED ORGANISM definition

Stranger: made up of organelles

Stranger: which is what I asked you before you jackass

You: Not all cells are organisms.

Stranger: that also means that every cell in the body is an organism

You: A zygote is.

Stranger: form of life, such as a plant, animal, bacterium, protist, or fungus; a body made up of organs, organelles, or other parts that work together to carry on the various processes of life.

Stranger: all cells have organelles used to carry out the functions of life

Stranger: all cells are, therefore by that definition, organisms

Stranger: you have just been scienced

Stranger: now stfu

Stranger: :P

You: No.

Stranger: yes

You: A cell is PART of an organism.

Stranger: so is a zygote

Stranger: a zygote carries the INFORMATION for an organism

Stranger: but at the joining stage of sperm and egg

Stranger: it is still a cell

You: zygote One-celled organism resulting from fertilization. (40)

http://www.mhhe.com/socscience/devel/common/gloss/s-z.htm

Stranger: which is, TECHNICALLY an organism

Stranger: NO MORE SO THAN ANY OTHER CELL IN THE HUMAN BODY

You: The sperm and egg merge to form a little single-celled organism called a zygote

http://health.howstuffworks.com/pregnancy-and-parenting/pregnancy/issues/pregnancy1.htm

You: The human body is an organism.

Stranger: NO MORE SO THAN ANY OTHER CELL IN THE HUMAN BODY

You: No, individual cells in a human ARE NOT ORGANISMS.

Stranger: yes they are

You: No, they aren't. They're cells.

Stranger: The cell is the functional basic unit of life

You: Yes, they're what multicellular organisms are made of.

You: Cells are no more organisms than fingers are people.

Stranger: and, standalone, they are themselves single celled organisms

You: No, they're cells.

Stranger: a finger, along, if you left it with food would not survive

You: Not all cells are organisms.

Stranger: a cell in the human body, if left with food, would flourish, and grow, and divide

Stranger: it has organelles which carry out the basic functions of life

Stranger: which is the definition of organism

You: If you just plop a cell next to a hamburger, it would die.

Stranger: if you plop a zygote next to a hamburger it would die too

Stranger: JACKASS

Stranger: >:/

You: If you took a finger and pumped blood through it so all of its cells got nutrients, it wouldn't die.

Stranger: but then it would be attatched to a circulatory system

You: So?

Stranger: so it could not survive without the whole

Stranger: it could not survive on its own

Stranger: any cell in the human body could

You: It needs something to get the nutrients to its cells. An ad hoc "circulatory system" is the most efficient way to do that.

Stranger: yes

Stranger: so it cannot stand alone

Stranger: a cell can

Stranger: but look

Stranger: i need to go in a min

Stranger: ive loved this convo

Stranger: do you have an email address

You: Yeah.

Stranger: we could continue?

You:

Stranger: awesome

Stranger: Ill see you later bro

Stranger: :L

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WTF

2011-03-29T12:32:00.001-07:00

You're now chatting with a random stranger. Say hi!

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Stranger: hi

You: Hey. :) How do you feel about abortion?

Stranger: pro-choice

You: Why?

Stranger: cuz i feel that if a woman wants to abort, then let her

You: Does that apply through all 9 months?

Stranger: i suppose

You: So if a woman wants to get an abortion and she's past her due date, she should be allowed?

Stranger: if she wants

You: What if she gives birth prematurely? Should she be allowed to kill the newborn?

Stranger: well thats not abortion, now is it?

You: What's the difference? Why does the exact same person have a right to live or not based solely on his or her location?

Stranger: im not saying its right or wrong, im saying technically its not called abortion naymore

Stranger: anymore*

You: Is it right to kill a born baby that was premature?

Stranger: personally, i dont think its either, and weather something's right or wrong is a label created by the individual based on their personal ethics

You: Should she be allowed to kill the premature born baby if she wants to?

Stranger: it wouldnt affect me at all so i dont see why not, but at the same time, it's rather cruel, so i dont see why she would

You: A teen mom a few months ago tried to kill her 4-month-old son to "make life easier".

You: Should she have been allowed to?

Stranger: as unfortunate that might look in the eyes of society, its is rational

You: What if the baby was four years old instead of four months?

Stranger: im talking rational in the sense of removing the child from her life, example through killing, but she aslo could have gave it away, or let her parents or someone she trusts care for it, as another example

Stranger: both examples being justified in that her life is now "easier"

You: Should she have been allowed to kill the baby?

Stranger: theoretically, yes

Stranger: although

Stranger: it would probably be in the best interest of all to go with the latter example

You: If the baby had been 4 years instead of 4 months, should she still have been allowed to kill him?

Stranger: again, yes, but like i just said it would probably be a better idea to let someone else care for it

You: What if he was 14?

Stranger: at that point hes old enough to partly care for himself, and also the mother would probably be both too emotionally attached to him, and could be able to care for him as well

You: Should she be allowed or not?

Stranger: idk why she would, but if she really wanted to

You: What if he wasn't her son, and just some random teen. Should she still be allowed to kill him?

Stranger: now its not even close to abortion where are we going with this

You: I just want to know when you get to have your life protected in the law, since you think she should be allowed to kill her 14-year-old son.

Stranger: well law is just a set of rules created by society to keep order, and by their definition, any form of killing afore

Stranger: afore mentioned here*

Stranger: outside of the womb is illegal

You: But should it be?

Stranger: well that is where you have the conflict between law and personal ethics

Stranger: so the answer is different for everyone

Stranger: to a degree

You: Should the law just let anyone do whatever they want?

Stranger: no, thats exactly what the law fights against, so ensure people just go do whatever they want.

Stranger: just dont go*

You: But you said that she should be allowed to kill her son

Stranger: by my ethics yes,
by law no

You: According to your ethics, when shouldn't she be allowed to kill him?

Stranger: when it becomes impractical to do so

Stranger: meaning

Stranger: when the child is no longer a burden to her

You: So she should be allowed to kill her son as long as he's a burden on her?

Stranger: basically untill she has no justification to do so

You: That's... kinda sick.

Stranger: like if he's 14, he's not going to bare her down, he can do things on his own, she has no need to kill him, but at the same time, as an infant, she is completely dependent on her

Stranger: not saying that 14 is the turning point, of course

Stranger: its a gradual turning point

You: You can't half-kill someone. She can either kill him or he can't.

Stranger: that isnt half killing, its either killing or it isnt, she kills him when he's an infant, or she never kills him

You: At what point can't she kill him?

Stranger: like i said its a gradual turning point

You: There can't be a gradual turning point for a yes or no question.

You: Either she can kill him or she can't. At some point, the answer switches from yes to no.

Stranger: so then tell me, at what exact age does an individual become able to for the most part, do things on their own? not legally, but physically capable of it?

Stranger: whats the exact age?

You: What doe you mean by that?

Stranger: like, take me for example, im 17, i can mostly do stuff without the help of my parents, i cant legally be on my own, but i can physically care for myself for the most part

Stranger: whats the exact age in which someone can do that?

You: It depends on the person.

Stranger: exatcly

Stranger: and thats why the turning point is gradual

You: It varies, but it's not gradual.

Stranger: but its not like one day you wake up with the ability to care for yourself like i described

Stranger: its something you gradually become able to do over time

You: You get better and better at it until the point when you can take care of yourself.

You: But I digress.

You: If the boy is handicapped and can't take care of himself even at 22, can she kill him?

Stranger: and wheres the exact point that someone becomes just a bit better and switches over to the "capable" side?

Stranger: there isnt a specific point

You: What part of "I digress" didn't you understand?

Stranger: oh i didnt see that sorry

Stranger: i was typing

You: That's okay.

You: If the boy is handicapped and can't take care of himself even at 22, can she kill him?

Stranger: theoretically yes, but why would she? at that point she would definitely be too emotionally attached to do so, and by then she would have acquired a job most likely, and just like any other functioning household she can care for him without it being a burden to her

You: That's... pretty disgusting.

You: Can you not see how sick that is?

Stranger: i see how one can view it as such

You: I...

You: No offense, but you're evil.

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the human form

2011-03-10T07:45:00.000-08:00

You're now chatting with a random stranger. Say hi!

Official messages from Omegle will not be sent with the label 'Stranger:'. Strangers claiming to represent Omegle are lying.

Stranger: Ask a gay guy anything

You: How do you feel about the "gay gene" hypothesis?

Stranger: its an interesting hypothesis but

Stranger: i believe it is that coupled with hormones in the womb that determine your sexuality

Stranger: which is why its not black and white

You: Do you think we should look for the gene and/or hormones that cause homosexuality?

Stranger: idk

Stranger: probably

Stranger: just so we know where it is

Stranger: although

Stranger: it is said it is a mixture of certian genes

Stranger: not just one gene

You: What if people then started aborting babies that showed those genes/hormones?

Stranger: well it would be pretty hard to detect the hormones a they final rush of hormones is quite late in the pregnancy

Stranger: as*

You: Abortions can still be done late in pregnancy.

Stranger: true

Stranger: but in theory, they gay gene would go away i guess

Stranger: but

Stranger: there are some advantages to humanity , to 10% of the population being gay

You: I guess my question is would that be a bad thing, prenatally finding and killing gay people.

Stranger: well yeh

Stranger: think about it if they weren't in the womb

You: Hmm.

You: So how do you feel about abortion in general?

Stranger: im against it tbh, but

Stranger: i have no right to tell others what to do

You: You don't?

Stranger: so if they want one

You: Who told you that?

Stranger: up to them

You: So if I wanted to set fire to my neighbor's house, rape his cat, and kidnap his daughter, you'd have no right to tell me not to do that?

Stranger: well

Stranger: i guess i would try and stop you doing that

You: Why?

Stranger: i guess what i ment

Stranger: i have no right to tell others what to do with their own body*

You: True, I guess.

You: But the child is another body.

You: You can certainly tell someone what not to do to someone else's body.

Stranger: well its not a child, its still a foetus

You: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/child

child
[chahyld] Show IPA
–noun, plural chil·dren.

4.
a human fetus.

You: But whatever, let's use the word fetus.

You: But the fetus is another body.

You: You can certainly tell someone what not to do to someone else's body.

Stranger: the foetus is not a body yet

Stranger: its just a group of cells

You: So are you.

Stranger: possibly with ought a brain

You: Bodies are made of cells.

Stranger: or any understanding of who/what it is

You: So in order to have a body, you need to be self-aware?

Stranger: no, you need to have developed most of the major organs

You: Well, that happens about 8 weeks from conception.

You: So are you saying you oppose abortion of fetuses, but not of embryos?

Stranger: tbh

Stranger: i dont know for sure

Stranger: ive heard both sides of the debate for this

Stranger: and i dont know who's right

You: And why do you need all the major organs to have a body?

You: Why can't you have a body that just happens to not have all the organs yet?

You: But okay, think of it this way.

You: You're saying you don't know if abortion kills a person, right?

Stranger: right

Stranger: well an embyryo

You: Well, what do we do in other such situations?

Stranger: as i have mixed up terms

You: Do we demolish up a building before we know if there are still people in it?

You: If a hunter sees a rustling in a bush, shouldn't he make sure it's a deer and not a fellow hunter before shooting?

Stranger: if its his bush

Stranger: wait no

Stranger: i misread that

You: If you're driving in a car, and see a humanoid shape coming at you, wouldn't you swerve, even if you didn't know if it was a scarecrow, a coat in the wind, or a human being?

You: In any other situation in which human life is at stake, we err on the side of life.

You: Why should abortion be the one exception?

Stranger: So if it has the potential to be human it should be allowed to live?

You: I didn't say that.

You: I said if we don't know if an entity is a person or not, we err on the side of caution.

You: If the embryo isn't a human yet, there's nothing wrong with abortion. But if the embryo is a human, it's immoral to kill said embryo.

Stranger: so if the mother doesn't want the baby we let it be born into a would were it will be unwanted?

You: Would you kill an infant to prevent her from growing up unwanted?

Stranger: that's diferent

You: Why?\

You: It's the same person, just older.

You: Do we become more human as we grow up? Biology tells us an organism can't change species.

Stranger: well

Stranger: when we are a embryo

Stranger: we dont have the human form yet

You: What is "the human form"?

You: We have the form of a human at that age.

You: Humans have different forms at different stages of development.

Stranger: em·bry·o (ĕmˈbrē-ōˌ)
noun pl. embryos em·bry·os
a. An organism in its early stages of development, especially before it has reached a distinctively recognizable form.

You: Recognizable, yes.

You: But notice the word "organism".

You: An organism can't be part of another organism.

You: The embryo is a separate body from the mother, so your "i have no right to tell others what to do with their own body" doesn't apply.

Stranger: well its going to be affecting the mother's body for most of a year

You: Also, "before it has reached a distinctively recognizable form" doesn't mean the embryo isn't human.

You: It just means that the human form at that stage is similar to many other forms.

Stranger: so i think it does

You: So now you can do whatever you want with anything that affects your body? That's a much broader claim than your original one.

Stranger: i dont know tbh

You: And again, what do we do when we don't know if an action could kill someone?

You: We don't do it.

Stranger: which is why if it were up to me, I wouldnt have one

Stranger: all this stemmed from

Stranger: What if people then started aborting babies that showed those (gay) genes/hormones?

You: Yeah, interesting how conversations evolve.

You: So what, in your view, grants a person the right to not be killed, and to have that right protected by law?

Stranger: well

Stranger: i dont think you should kill a fetus

You: Why not?

Stranger: its got significantly more features of a human than an Embryo does

You: What do you mean by "features of a human"? And what about these grant rights?

You: Are you saying just looking human is enough to have rights, and humans that don't "look" human by whatever arbitrary and subjective aesthetic criteria can be killed by the millions?

You: Wouldn't it be more fair and logical just to grant all humans human rights, regardless of their physical appearance?

Stranger: what about the right's of the mother?

You: If the fetus is a person, she has no more right to kill him or her before birth than after birth.

Stranger: i would agree with you there

Stranger: i dont think an embryo is though

You: Why not?

You: Because the embryo doesn't "look" human, based on some arbitrary and subjective aesthetic criteria you decided make someone disposable?

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Question Dodging

2011-02-16T11:06:00.001-08:00

Stranger: what do you think about him then

You: hes a jerk

Stranger: why

You: he hates babies

Stranger: what?

You: hes a jerk

Stranger: how does he hate babies

You: he voted for infanticide

Stranger: abortion?

You: no infanticide

You: there was a bill to make it illegal to kill babies born alive after a failed abortion and he voted against it

Stranger: so it would be better that babies would be born with disformation?

You: huh?

You: Are you saying disabled ppl should be murdered?

You: wtf!

Stranger: aborted before they are boen

You: this bill was making it illegal to kill BORN babies

Stranger: do you have name of the bill

You: Born Alive Infants Protection Act

Stranger: why there are failed abortions

You: huh?

You: what do u mean?

You: hello?

Stranger: http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/PLAW-107publ207/html/PLAW-107publ207.htm

Stranger: that?

You: i guess

Stranger: "regardless of whether the expulsion or extraction occurs as a
result of natural or induced labor, cesarean section, or induced
abortion."

You: is that the federal one?

Stranger: I am not the american here but it says "107th Congress Public Law 207" so I would guess it is

You: he voted against the illinois one

You: why did you quote that section?

Stranger: you have failed abortion and the baby dont have any limbs

Stranger: doesnt sound very humane to me

You: so people without any limbs should be murdered?

Stranger: no you get your human rights when you are certain age

You: what age is that?

Stranger: lets say 6 months

You: after birth?

Stranger: after conception

You: what if the abortion was at 6 months and the baby had no limbs?

Stranger: err you dont abort after 6 months

You: says who?

You: it happens, just not much

Stranger: havent thought that much about exactly when fetus should get human rights

You: so a healthy baby born at 5 months has no rights?

You: according to mr. Stranger: I think we should be less ageist

Stranger: I think it is good that there is possibility for abortion

Stranger: as if parents dont have means to raise child

You: what if they do at first but dont l8r?

Stranger: it would we better than child wont have to suffer from inability of parents

You: if a family goes broke can they kill their toddler?

You: to save her from suffering?

Stranger: no

You: why not?

You: she'll suffer from their inability

You: why isn't it better for her to die?

You: she's the same girl she was in the womb, just older

You: if we're not gonna be ageist, it's good to kill her too

Stranger: I didnt mean we should treat everyone completely the same way irregardless of age but that we shouldnt stereotype individuals

Stranger: based on their age

You: i think killing someone is a bit worse than stereotyping htem

You: them

Stranger: ?

You: so is it only racist to stereotype blacks, but not to deny them equal rights?

Stranger: so you think that you get your human rights nanosecond after conception

You: i think u get them as soon as u exist

Stranger: then sperm should have rights

Stranger: and masturbation would be murder

You: what?

You: what r u talking about?

Stranger: there is continuity from sperm to baby

You: no, when the sperm and egg meet a new organism is formed

You: jesus christ this is 7th grade biology!

Stranger: I said " so you think that you get your human rights nanosecond after conception "

Stranger: then why didnt you say yes then

You: well not after

You: somewhere in conception

Stranger: what is the difference

You: conception takes like 12-24 hours to finish

You: its a process not an moment

You: the sperm goes into the egg then the genes have to mix

You: i dont think it makes sense to say someone's too young for human rights

You: you get human rights just 4 being human

Stranger: http://docinthemachine.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/embryo-brochure.jpg

Stranger: is what we are talking about now

You: whats your point?

Stranger: does 4 cells constitute a human

You: those do

You: and that looks more like 7

Stranger: cant be

Stranger: odd number

You: maybe 8

You: why does being an odd number matter?

You: yeah i see 8

Stranger: so can you murder baby you arent aware that exists

You: no u cant

You: murder needs intent

You: u cant murder an adult u dont know exists either

Stranger: bad translation

Stranger: manslaughter

You: hmm

You: ianal

Stranger: what?

You: i am not a lawyer

You: idk how manslaughter law works

You: or what's so funny about it

Stranger: ?

You: manslaughter = man's laughter

You: its a pun

Stranger: sexists!

You: what?

Stranger: nothing

Stranger: what do you think about gay marriage

You: i say the govt should stay out of marriage

Stranger: I didnt ask that

You: im cool with it

Stranger: who do you opposite abortion

Stranger: *why

You: cause its wrong

Stranger: why is it wrong

You: i thought we'd moved to marriage

Stranger: it was too boring

You: oh ok

You: its wrong because it kills people

Stranger: do you have problem with killing mosquitos

You: mosquitos arent people

Stranger: why people are special

Stranger: should gorilla that can communicate using sign language have same rights as human

You: ?

Stranger: "Koko has a vocabulary of over 1000 signs (American Sign Language) most of which she learned during the first few years of the project. However, she continues to learn (and occasionally invent) new signs, to improve her ability to communicate with her caregivers"

Stranger: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U64k_fA2Rcc

You: oh

You: So what?

Stranger: there is nothing special about human

You: so you're saying using sign language gives your rights?

Stranger: I am not saying I am asking

You: no it doesnt

Stranger: even if it has better understanding of world than a child

You: so?

Stranger: human child

You: since when does understanding give rights?

Stranger: understanding is what supposedly makes humans special

Stranger: they dont have same rights because arent same species?

You: so you're saying a gorilla has rights but a human newborn doesnt?

Stranger: I didnt say that

You: so why bring up understanding?

Stranger: mosquitos arent people

Stranger: "mosquitos arent people"

You: do you think they are?

Stranger: so we can kill anyone who isnt a homo sapiens sapiens

You: if you're not human are you "someone"?

Stranger: only humans have personhood and identity?

You: what do YOU think gives rights?

Stranger: capabilities

You: what capabilities?

You: and since when are rights based on what you can do?

Stranger: 6 year old doesnt get to vote

Stranger: should we let 6 year olds vote

You: yes we should

Stranger: why

You: why not?

Stranger: "why not?" doesnt answer to question "why"

You: it does too

Stranger: I was asking your opinion not asking you to ask my opinion

You: because they're affected by govt too

Stranger: gorillas are affected by govt too

Stranger: they never get to vote

You: they're citizens

Stranger: should 6 year old bare same responsibilities as 18 year old

You: depends on the 6 year old

You: in your opinion what do i have to do to earn the right to not be murdered?

Stranger: responsibilities depend but voting doesnt?

Stranger: you get influence without responsibilities?

You: i wouldnt trust a test to say who can vote

Stranger: there was a test for blacks in america

Stranger: that way south kept them from not voting

You: yes, and look how that turned out

Stranger: that is why they are certain age when people are generally expected to be

Stranger: that there cant be discrimination on test

You: ive seen some morons that still get to vote

Stranger: yes

Stranger: but again if you make test

Stranger: you are giving someone power to decide whether s/he can vote

You: thats my point

Stranger: why should you get citizenship through birth

Stranger: isnt that discrimination

Stranger: global caste system

You: huh?

Stranger: your citizenship restricts your mobility

Stranger: in same way as castes used to

You: in your opinion what do i have to do to earn the right to not be murdered?

Stranger: born

You: you said at 6 months after conception

You: which is it?

Stranger: I dont see that much difference

You: um, birth is 9 months

Stranger: yes?

You: there's a 3 month difference

Stranger: which isnt much

Stranger: you would expect

Stranger: that by the time mother has become aware

Stranger: and made her decision

You: do you get your rights at 6 months or 9 months?

Stranger: I said it doesnt make much difference

Stranger: is it 6 7 8 or 9

You: which is it? 3 months is a quarter of a year

Stranger: as it doesnt make much difference whether voting age is 17 18 19

You: is it okay to have an abortion at 7 months?

Stranger: depends on legistation

You: morally

You: its legal in all 9 months

Stranger: not in every country

You: in some countries its illegal in all 9 months

Stranger: true

You: im asking your opinion, not the law's

Stranger: I already said I dont see much difference where you but the time when you get your human rights

Stranger: as long as there is enough time that parents get to consider

Stranger: if you have missed two ovaries you rings should start rining

Stranger: ringing

You: theres a show called I didnt know i was pregnant

Stranger: yes

You: what do you mean ringing?

Stranger: I said should

You: what do yo mean about ringing ovaries/

You: how can ovaries ring?

Stranger: you have missed two periods

Stranger: you should start suspecting something

Stranger: of course it is possible because of malnutrion also

You: or cysts

You: theres a show called I didnt know i was pregnant where they dont know until they give birth

Stranger: I dont know about that

You: its on TLC

Stranger: I dont live in america and I watch tv less than 5 minutes per week on average

You: well its there

You: is it 6 or 9?

Stranger: already told you

You: no you didnt

Stranger: I said it doesnt make much difference

Stranger: couple of times

You: and i told u it does

Stranger: you asked my opinion

You: and you didnt tell me it

Stranger: all ready told you many times

You: is it moral to kill a 7 month baby?

Stranger: and I said dont see much difference where you but the time when you get human rights

You: the difference is you can or cannot kill the baby

Stranger: yes

You: so which is it?

Stranger: .......................

Stranger: .........................

Stranger: ....................

Stranger: ........................

Stranger: ..........................

Stranger: ..................

Stranger: ........................

Stranger: how many times do i have to answer

You: only once

Stranger: I did 5 times

You: you havent yet

You: you keep dodging the question

Stranger: I havent dodged

Stranger: I said it doesnt make difference to me

Stranger: is it 6

Stranger: 7

Stranger: 8

Stranger: or 9

You: is it moral to kill a 7-month baby, yes or no?

Stranger: you pick a number from 6 to 9

Stranger: you dont get to abort after

You: YES OR NO?

Stranger: what part you dont understand

You: the part where you don't answer me

You: you can say you dont know

Stranger: already answered many times

Stranger: I dont see difference which number you pick

You: i told you difference

You: the difference is life or death for the baby

Stranger: zzzzzzzzzzz

You: okay whatever what's so special about birth that it means you can't kill the baby?

Stranger: what?

You: you said the baby gets rights at birth

You: why?

Stranger: or at 6 or 7 or 8 or 9

You: so at birth the child already has rights

Stranger: if its less than 9 then yes

You: why can a 5-month baby be killed but not a 10-month child?

Stranger: so that every child is wanted

You: can an unwanted toddler be killed?

Stranger: or maxium number of childs are wanted

You: can an unwanted toddler be killed?

Stranger: i have already told you have i think

Stranger: there is a period after conception

Stranger: when parents get to judge whether they have means to raise child

Stranger: if they come to conclusion that they dont

Stranger: they have abortion

Stranger: after period has expired

Stranger: they dont get to abort

You: what's so special about that period?

Stranger: it is intended to make maximum number of babies wanted

You: if they find out late or the situation changes, why can't they abort at 9 months?

Stranger: and make wellbeing of children better

You: if they change their mind, why can't they kill an unwanted newborn?

Stranger: because child has to get his human rights sometime

You: why doesn't the child have human rights at 5 months?

Stranger: so that maximum number of children are wanted

Stranger: and raised by parents that have the means to do it

You: why does the child have human rights at 10 months?

Stranger: because child has to get his human rights sometime

You: why can't that time be at puberty?

Stranger: that child is lawless until puberty?

You: why not?

You: why can't the time be at age 2?

You: why can't the age be 4 months?

Stranger: because its outside body

You: so a baby born at 5 months can't be killed?

You: because its outside the body

You: even though its before 6 months

Stranger: here its legal up to 6 months because of fetal defects , socioeconomic factors and rape

Stranger: up to 9 months to protect mothers life , physical health and mental health

You: does a 5 month born baby have rights?

You: a baby born 4 months early

You: does it have human rights?

Stranger: i would need better medical knowledge

Stranger: on the changes of survival

Stranger: probability of defections

You: it's healthy

Stranger: I would still need

Stranger: you dont make laws based on whether individual is healthy

You: i thought you said you get human rights at birth

Stranger: never said that

You: You: in your opinion what do i have to do to earn the right to not be murdered?
Stranger: born

You: if you dont make laws based on whether individual is healthy, why does it matter if they will have defects?

Stranger: Stranger: you said at 6 months after conception
Stranger: which is it?
You: I dont see that much difference

You: so its 6 months

Stranger: netherlands have exactly 6 months in every case if I am reading correctly

Stranger: cuba its 3 months

You: USA has until birth, and ireland has 0 months

Stranger: ireland has de facto until birth

Stranger: you can always travel across bond to uk

You: dominican republic has 0

You: chile

You: nicaragua

You: el salvador

You: several us states before 1973

Stranger: yes?

Stranger: there is a pattern

Stranger: many of those are catholic

You: so?

Stranger: their laws are based on laws supposedly giving by sky daddy

You: whats your point?

Stranger: just a comment

You: so why can't people get human rights after birth, or before 6 months?

Stranger: you are asking same questions again and again

Stranger: and would only give same answers again and again

You: i havent asked this one

You: iirc

Stranger: what

You: why 6-9 months and not 2 months or 2 years?

Stranger: 2 months isnt enough

You: isnt enough for what?

Stranger: to know with high probability that you are pregnant and make informed decision based on that

Stranger: and isnt enough to see if child is mentally deficit

You: if you don't find out the child is disabled until she's three years old, why can't you kill her?

Stranger: I already told you

Stranger: child has to get its human rights at some point

You: why can't she get human rights at four?

Stranger: somewhere between 6 and 9 is reasonable in my opinion

Stranger: months

You: why can't she get human rights at four years?

You: why can't she get human rights at 12 months?

Stranger: because there has been enough time to make decisision in many cases

You: what if there wasn't?

You: what if they only just found out?

Stranger: you make laws for all

Stranger: you make laws for general cases

You: so in your view human rights aren't real, but just legal fictions?

Stranger: if you mean somehow divine

Stranger: then no

You: Are they inherent, or do we just have them if someone else says we have them?

Stranger: human rights are construct of human mind

You: if someone decided you didn't have rights, would you lose yours?

Stranger: do you know what is utilitarianism

Stranger: and it is very closely related to what we are talking

Stranger: not trying to dodge

Stranger: yes?

Stranger: no?

You: yes i do and i dont like it

You: this one guy said babies arent people until a year after birth

Stranger: that is the way I approach it

Stranger: what one guy

You: peter singer

Stranger: you know background to that

You: huh?

Stranger: is lying always wrong

You: no

Stranger: is killing always wrong

You: no

You: if we get rights at birth, Obama's vote was wrong

Stranger: I dont know background to that

You: to what?

Stranger: do you have the full illinois law

You: lemme look

You: why can't we give parents a longer time than 9 months to decide if they can handle a baby?

You: what would be wrong with making the age 12 or 18 months instead of 6 or 9/

You: ?

Stranger: i dont work in your absolutist world

You: should it be legal to kill a newborn if you decide you can't care for her/

Stranger: I don't see problems with the current system

You: it lets babies be killed!

Stranger: embryos

You: it doesnt minimize unwanted children

Stranger: yes it does

You: no it doesnt

You: if a born child is unwanted, they cant be killed

You: therefore it doesnt

You: it reduces, but it does not minimize

Stranger: synonyms

You: no they're not

You: minimize means to bring to a minimum

You: the minimum is the smallest possible amount

You: they're no more synonyms than less and least are synonyms

Stranger: Definition of MINIMIZE "to reduce"

Stranger: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/minimize

You: min·i·mize: Reduce (something, esp. something unwanted or unpleasant) to the smallest possible amount or degree

You: http://www.google.com/dictionary?source=dict-chrome-ex&sl=en&tl=en&q=minimize

Stranger: yes words have many meanings english is peace of shit

Stranger: piece

You: full definition you quoted: : to reduce or keep to a minimum

Stranger: OR

You: yes

Stranger: or means either is valid

You: to reduce or keep, to a minimum

Stranger: or both

Stranger: there is no comma

You: means either "reduce to a minimum" or "keep to a minimum" is valid

Stranger: THERE IS NO COMMA

Stranger: 1
: to reduce or keep to a minimum

Stranger: without comma

You: same deal without the comma

Stranger: you are pulling that comma from your ass

Stranger: liar

You: min·i·mize (mn-mz)
tr.v. min·i·mized, min·i·miz·ing, min·i·miz·es
1.
a. To reduce to the smallest possible amount, extent, size, or degree.

You: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/minimize

Stranger: yes???

You: min·i·mize
/ˈmɪnəˌmaɪz/ Show Spelled[min-uh-mahyz] Show IPA
–verb (used with object), -mized, -miz·ing.
1.
to reduce to the smallest possible amount or degree.

You: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/minimize

Stranger: : to reduce or keep to a minimum

Stranger: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/minimize

Stranger: english is a language without central authority

You: even your definition agrees with me!

Stranger: to reduce or keep to a minimum

Stranger: without comma

You: i know

Stranger: or means

You: the comma was unnecessary

Stranger: either or both of them may be true

You: correct

Stranger: so to reduce

You: either "reduce to a minimum" or "keep to a minimum" is valid

Stranger: is correct usage

Stranger: zzzzzzz

Stranger: to reduce or keep to a minimum

Stranger: why the fuck are you arguing about this

You: if you say "i chewed and swallowed my food", both verbs are to the end of the sentence

Stranger: http://mathworld.wolfram.com/OR.html

Stranger: there is you how or works

You: "you can lick or bite a tootsie pop"

You: "you can walk or run to the store"

Stranger: english is ambigious language

You: since the definition you cite is ambiguous, we should look to other dictionaries for clearer definitions

Stranger: *ambiguous

Stranger: whole language is ambigious

Stranger: it has no central authority

You: http://education.yahoo.com/reference/dictionary/entry/minimize

Stranger: if you want ass to mean table

You: min·i·mize audio (mn-mz) KEY

TRANSITIVE VERB:
min·i··mized, min·i··miz·ing, min·i··miz·es

1.
1. To reduce to the smallest possible amount, extent, size, or degree.

Stranger: you only need to gather following for it

You: to reduce something harmful or unpleasant to the smallest amount or degree

We must minimize the damage to innocent civilians.

http://www.macmillandictionary.com/dictionary/american/minimize

Stranger: "to reduce something harmful "

You: –verb-transitive
# To reduce to the smallest possible amount, extent, size, or degree.

http://www.wordnik.com/words/Minimize

You: "to the smallest amount or degree"

Stranger: and?

You: minimize verb
(UK usually minimise) Click to hear the UK pronunciation of this wordClick to hear the US pronunciation of this word/ˈmɪn.ɪ.maɪz/ v [T]
Share this
Definition
•
to reduce something to the least possible level or amount
We must minimize the risk of infection.
Environmentalists are doing everything within their power to minimize the impact of the oil spill.
Opposite: maximize

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/minimize

Stranger: english is piece of shit

Stranger: I already know it

You: Verb

to minimize (third-person singular simple present minimizes, present participle minimizing, simple past and past participle minimized)

1. (transitive) To make (something) as small or as insignificant as possible.

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/minimize

i think ive made my point

Stranger: argumentum ad potentiam

You: but lets go with reduce

Stranger: argumentum ad populum

Stranger: argumentum ad potentiam

Stranger: argumentum ad populum

You: you did say that all it needs is a big enough following

Stranger: argumentum ad populum

Stranger: yes

You: thats a pretty big following

Stranger: but no universal

Stranger: therefore its ambiguous

You: im pretty sure you're the only one who disagrees

Stranger: what?

You: whatever. let's go with reduce.

Stranger: fuck off

You: getting human rights would also reduce unwanted children

You: rights at 4 months*

Stranger: countries with highest child well being

Stranger: are all abortion countries

You: so we should kill unhappy children?

Stranger: zzzzzzzzzzz

Stranger: strawman much

You: we could up those numbers even further if we allowed infanticide

Stranger: would you stop strawmans

You: im not

Stranger: would you stop repeating everything fucking hundred times

You: this is your logic

Stranger: Stranger: so we should kill unhappy children?

Stranger: is a strawman

Stranger: i didnt say that any point

You: by your logic, you're better off dead than sad.

Stranger: either you stop misrepreseting

Stranger: or fuck off

Stranger: your way of constructing strawmans are reapeating everything

Stranger: is fucking annoying

You: ok so tell me why it's okay to kill a 5-month-old but not a 5-year-old

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That's just messed up.

2011-01-01T08:32:00.000-08:00

You: But you'd kill an unborn child?

Stranger: It unborn.

You: Yes.

You: But you'd kill an unborn child?

Stranger: If i was a teen at tge time

Stranger: Cuz its not like anyone is emotionally attached to it

You: So you need someone to be emotionally attached to you to not be killed?

Stranger: No but if u could get over it urself thats all that matter cuz no one phisically knows it

You: That makes no sense.

You: What about a newborn? Could you off your own newborn if you're the only one who knows about her?

Stranger: Prob not cuz it already came out

You: So? You said what mattered was emotional attachment.

You: Is it okay to kill a newborn that nobody is attached to?

Stranger: Ok so if ur a parent and u kill ur 5 yr old kid who has friends and stuff everyone will be mad but if u abort a unborn nobody will notice and they shouldnt care what u decide

You: Is it okay to kill a newborn that nobody is attached to?

Stranger: How new?

You: Does it matter? Nobody is attached to them?

Stranger: It does matter. And if its already out minds well put it up for adoption cuz the moms vag is already fucked up

You: Why does the age matter?

Stranger: Cuz their life has already began

You: Let's say the newborn was born a few hours ago. Is it okay to kill that baby?

You: Remember, nobody is attached to her.

Stranger: No. Cuz its already out

You: But nobody is attached to her. According to you, it's okay to kill someone if nobody is attached to them.

Stranger: That wasnt what i ment to decide if its ok it was just support

Stranger: Not why it ok

You: So what makes it okay?

Stranger: That it is still in tge mom

Stranger: And its her choice

You: Is it her choice to kill a baby that's out of the womb but was born premature (say, 8 months)?

Stranger: No if it is inside her she can do what she wants

You: So she can't kill the premature born baby?

Stranger: No. Its already out

You: Is it her choice to kill a postterm baby (that is, a baby that is still in the womb, but past his/her due date)?

Stranger: Ya cuz its still insde her

You: Why is it that passing through the birth canal magically gives you the right to live?

Stranger: It just is

You: Why does the EXACT SAME BABY have the right to live or not depending on his location?

Stranger: Cuz maybe the mom doesnt want to have it or have it come out

You: And that means she can murder her own child?

Stranger: If u wanna look at it like that

You: That's barbaric!

Stranger: Its life

You: Okay, what if she doesn't want to kill the child? What if she just wants to take a boatload of drugs and screw up her child?

You: Would that be okay?

Stranger: Minds well just abort it. Its easier if u dont want it

You: Would she or would she not have the right to take drugs during pregnancy that would screw her child up for life?

Stranger: Its her choice

You: What if she wants the doctor to go in and surgically remove all of the child's limbs?

Stranger: Thats just being brutal. Its not the same

You: What if she wants to take the drug thalidomide, which can cause severe birth defects such as missing limbs?

You: Is that her right?

Stranger: She has the right to do what ever the fuck she wants just like everyone else

Stranger: It may be wrong be she can do it

You: But she doesn't have a right to have the child's limbs removed surgically?

Stranger: She can do it if she wants

Stranger: Its not right but idc

You: Does she have a right to have your limbs removed?

Stranger: Ya

You: To have YOUR limbs removed?

Stranger: Fuck that ill kick her ass

You: Does she have the right to have her born child's limbs removed?

Stranger: Ya. Its her kid

You: Does she have the right to have her born child killed?

Stranger: No mom is going to kill her live child

You: Really? It happens all the time.

Stranger: Abortions thats about it.

You: It's called filicide.

You: give me five minutes and i'll find a story where a parent murders their own child

You: Andrea Yates drowned her 5 children in the bathtub

You: http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/women/andrea_yates/index.html

Stranger: I know crazy shit happens buy it isnt all the time

Stranger: But*

You: Was it her right to kill them? After all, they were her children.

You: A teen mom recently tried to smother her 4-month-old to death to "make life easier"

Stranger: Ya. But if her mom did the right thing and aborted her then she wouldnt have killed her kin in the tub

Stranger: If ppl abort then they dont have to kill their kids

You: She wanted the kids; later on she came to believe they were possessed by demons or something.

Stranger: Ppl r crazy

You: If your mother were to murder you right now, would that be her right?

Stranger: I guess but she wouldnt cuz she is a normal person

You: Earlier you said a mother has no right to kill her children if they have already been born.

Stranger: She has the right to do what she wants just like everyone

You: Does she have the right to kill someone who is not her child?

Stranger: If i wanna go beat the shit outta my dad get drunk steal his car and go drive it off a bridge i hace the right to do that

Stranger: No. Its not hers.

You: You said she has the right to do whatever she wants.

You: What if she wants to kill someone who is not her kid?

Stranger: That is within reason

Stranger: If she wants to do stuff that she or a friend own she can do it.

You: Do you own your dad?

Stranger: Do u have the right to go into a random persons house and eaylt their food and shower and shit in their toliet? No

You: Why not?

Stranger: No i dont but he is my das

You: Okay let me get this straight.

You: The dad in Austria who kept his daughter locked in his basement as a sex slave for 24 years and fathered seven children with her was perfectly within his rights to do so?

You: Eight children, in fact.

Stranger: Thats just fucked up

Stranger: But idc do what u want, think what u want

You: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fritzl_case

You: According to your logic, he has the right to do whatever he wants to his child.

Stranger: Ya

You: So there was nothing wrong with what he did?

Stranger: Thats just fuckin weird.

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Be consistent at least!

2010-10-22T14:46:00.000-07:00

You're now chatting with a random stranger. Say hi!

Official messages from Omegle will not be sent with the label 'Stranger:'. Strangers claiming to represent Omegle are lying.

You: Heya. How do you feel about abortion?

Stranger: you're a male

Stranger: well, i feel it's subjective

Stranger: and it's up to the individual

You: How about infanticide?

Stranger: that's pretty heinous

Stranger: murder in general is pretty deplorable

You: Isn't infanticide subjective too?

Stranger: yes. I said that.

You: Not everyone thinks it's wrong.

Stranger: I agree. I don't think it's wrong.

You: You don't think infanticide is wrong?

Stranger: I'm referring to abortion. infanticide is wrong

You: Isn't infanticide subjective?

Stranger: actually, I don't have a clear definition of infanticide. I'd need more info. it sounds like murder of babies.

Stranger: I suppose everything is.

You: Infanticide is the killing of infants.

Stranger: even that statement

Stranger: ah, then I see that as wrong. But someone else may not therefore it is subjective

You: Why do you see it as wrong?

Stranger: because it's killing a human being I suppose

You: And the same person isn't a human being before birth?

Stranger: The mother has that say so

Stranger: Is the mother of her pack wrong when she eats her baby to survive?

You: What?

Stranger: or so that the rest will survive

You: Does the mother have the say so to kill her newborn?

Stranger: not once it's born

You: Does she get to decide if her toddler is human?

Stranger: No. Most likely it's human if it's come out of her?

Stranger: Should be a period up there

You: How so?

Stranger: 10 fingers and all that

Stranger: walking upright. two legs.

Stranger: breathes air

You: Right, because newborns walk upright.

Stranger: if you hold em up. I'm saying it's human that's all.

You: If you're born without fingers or without arms, are you not human?

Stranger: You started this conversation. If you don't like what I have to say then you can leave.

You: I just don't get it.

Stranger: You're totally human. Came out of a human vagina and grew from a sperm? Probably qualifies you.

Stranger: I've a friend with six fingers. She's a human. Don't feel bad though. She had to convince me too.

You: The unborn child also came from two humans.

Stranger: That's true.

You: I don't see any species the baby could belong to but H. sapiens.

Stranger: It's human. I'll give you that. But it's still unborn.

You: So?

You: What makes born humans more important?

Stranger: So if it's not born can it be killed?

Stranger: Your issue is with the killing of infants right?

You: Would it be okay to kill a premature baby?

Stranger: No, it's already been born.

You: One that was born, but early?

You: Would it be okay to kill a full-term unborn baby?

Stranger: He just got to the party early. You don't kill someone for that. You say, "Thanks for being prompt."

You: If a baby is late to the party, can you kill them, as long as it's before birth?

Stranger: I don't think so. I think up until the second trimester or something. I forget where the law stands.

Stranger: HAHAHAH

Stranger: that was awesome

You: Why the second trimester?

You: What?

You: You sounded like you were saying being unborn made it okay to kill you.

Stranger: I don't know. The law says that abortion is okay before the second trimester or something

Stranger: you can't be killed if you're not born

You: What do you mean?

Stranger: killing means taking away/ceasing life. To have life you must be born. If you're not born then you're not alive.

You: How can something that's not alive grow, develop, metabolize, maintain homeostasis, respond to stimuli, and so on?

You: And would infanticide be okay if it was legal?

Stranger: It doesn't do all that until a certain point right? After that point figure you shouldn't abort. I think legalizing infanticide is a bad idea. Why would you suggest that?

Stranger: Are you a nazi?

You: No, I'm not.

You: And the child does those from conception.

Stranger: Well, I'll assume you are one until you prove otherwise.

You: You do know what metabolism and homeostasis are, right?

Stranger: Nope. I retract my statement. I'm clearly not schooled enough to have an opinion here. Which is all the more reason for the mother to have a say so and not me.

You: Should the mother have a say so as to the humanity of her born children?

Stranger: No. Most likely it'll be human.

Stranger: Unless it's the anti-christ. Then we should snip that bud like nobody's business.

You: Biologically, the child is human from conception.

Stranger: Go on...

Stranger: i've already agreed to it being human

You: So why is it okay to kill such a human being? You said she shouldn't have say so with her newborn because the newborn is a human.

Stranger: Well that wasn't a well thought out statement obviously. haha

You: Why is it wrong to kill one human being but not another?

Stranger: It's wrong to kill a human being.

You: Are we not equal, with certain unalienable rights, among these being the right to life?

You: So it is wrong to kill an unborn child.

You: Stranger: i've already agreed to it being human
...
Stranger: It's wrong to kill a human being.

Stranger: Perhaps I was wrong then. But it isn't considered killing by some people. Again, subjectivity.

Stranger: Is it wrong to waste my sperm?

You: Biologically, it is killing.

You: Your sperm are part of your body.

You: I don't see how it would be any wronger than skinning your knee.

Stranger: I mean, they're all potentially human right? So i'm killing millions of people when I jack off. I'm practically Hitler over here.

Stranger: So isn't an unborn baby part of a woman's body? What with being inside her and connected to her and all

You: They all have the potential to contribute to half the genome of a human being. An unborn baby is already a human being.

You: No, not at all.

Stranger: Or what about you when you let guys you're with wear a condom? You're effectively not letting your eggs have a chance at life. That's worse than killing the part of your body or "skinning" your unborn baby

You: An egg has the potential to contribute to half the genome of a human being. An unborn baby is already a human being.

Stranger: What if it's a stillbirth? Why go through that later?

Stranger: you could finish it off early on

You: The baby has to be fed through the placenta, indirectly, and inhibit her immune system or else the mother's body will expel the baby as a foreign intruder.

You: If the baby's already dead, I don't see a problem with removing a corpse. In fact, if you don't it will rot and cause infection.

Stranger: Whatever it is, killing as you say, is up to the mother. It's part of her body. She feeds it and carries it and is one with her until she births it. Farbeit from me to feel I can tell her what she can do with it. You however, feel you can tell her what to do with it.

You: The baby is NOT a part of her body.

Stranger: I'm not sure if you're trying to change my mind on the subject. I say it's okay and it's up to the mother. That's pretty much it. I don't think I can make you understand if you choose not to.

Stranger: Really? That umbellical cord says otherwise.

Stranger: If I yank that baby out it's not going to hurt the mother then right?

You: So you don't think two organisms can's be physically connected?

You: Plenty of organisms attach to other organisms for nutrition.

You: Or what about conjoined twins?

Stranger: I do. I just said that. Here let me quote myself for you: "She feeds it and carries it and is one with her until she births it"

You: She feeds and carries the baby, true, but that does not make it part of her.

Stranger: So it is You don't think they're connected. Here, I'll quote you: "The baby is NOT a part of her body."

Stranger: we're saying the same thing

You: They ARE connected.

Stranger: then why did you say they aren't?

You: Being connected to someone and being part of then is not the same thing.

Stranger: I say different. Yet another thing we disagree on.

You: Is it okay to kill a born baby if the cord isn't out yet?

Stranger: haha nope

You: How come?

Stranger: I told you at some point early on in the pregnancy it's okay to terminate that little parasite.

Stranger: Are you effectively trying to change my mind?

You: I'm just asking questions.

You: Is it okay to kill the baby at 9 months?

Stranger: well I'm tired of talking about this. I've stated my position several times. You seem like a level headed woman though. Is your daughter pregnant? Are you Sarah Palin?

You: No, no, and no.

Stranger: So you're not a level headed woman?

You: Nope.

Stranger: I suppose you aren't, Sarah.

Stranger: I really dig that porno you were in.

You: I'm a dude.

Stranger: Your best political move was getting into porn. Kudos.

Stranger: hahah sarah palin is a dude

Stranger: anyhow, i have other people to not be preached to by. have a good one, lady.

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Omegle always flakes on the long ones.

2010-10-22T13:59:00.000-07:00

You're now chatting with a random stranger. Say hi!

Official messages from Omegle will not be sent with the label 'Stranger:'. Strangers claiming to represent Omegle are lying.

You: Heya. How do you feel about abortion?

Stranger: pro-choice

You: Could you specify?

Stranger: ...

Stranger: how much more specific do you want me to be?

You: Pro-choice through all 9 months for all reasons?

Stranger: yup

You: If a woman was past her due date and wanted to do it for funzies, that'd be okay with you?

Stranger: thatd be stupid, but yeah

You: What if she was paster her due date but the baby had been born?

Stranger: thats not an abortion, thats infanticide

Stranger: which im against

You: Why?

You: It's the same baby, maybe even older.

You: How about a baby born premature?

Stranger: if a woman bears it to birth, shes stuck with it

Stranger: or can put it up for adoption, but, yknow

You: So killing a 29-week premie is wrong but killing a 42-week postterm baby is fine?

Stranger: stop trying to make me look like a bastard

You: What is it about the vagina that means passing through one magically gives you rights?

Stranger: if a woman doesnt want the baby, shed probably get an abortion as soon as she found out

You: That's not what I'm asking.

Stranger: yeah, youre asking me questions about situations that are unlikely to occur

You: You said if a woman was past her due date, it'd be okay with you for her to kill the baby.

Stranger: but stupid

You: But you don't think it's wrong.

You: Yet the exact same baby less than a foot away would have the right to not be killed?

You: Or an even younger, less developed baby even?

You: Why is it morally acceptable in your mind to kill a baby at 9 months old, one that could certainly survive outside the womb, but that a movement of less than a foot causes it to be morally repugnant?

You: What about a change in his or her position grants any rights he or she did not already have?

You: Does where you are have that much of an impact on who you are?

You: Hello?

Stranger is typing...

Any forums you frequent?

2010-09-07T16:36:00.001-07:00

You're now chatting with a random stranger. Say hi!

Official messages from Omegle will not be sent with the label 'Stranger:'. Strangers claiming to represent Omegle are lying.

Stranger: im gonna own you

You: Hey there.

You: How do you feel about abortion?

Stranger: oh

Stranger: good opener

Stranger: i dont have a big opinion

Stranger: but if i got knocked up

Stranger: id probably do it

You: Is it the baby's fault?

Stranger: so i dont care about what others do

Stranger: of course not

Stranger: how could it be

You: So why should the baby be killed?

Stranger: well the baby is not in a position to fight for its life

Stranger: it is at the mercy of the mother

Stranger: it cannot say anything

Stranger: so its convenient for the mother

You: Is it okay to kill newborns, then?

Stranger: it is harder to swallow morally

Stranger: because you can see them

Stranger: and they can respond to you

You: So can unborn babies.

Stranger: well

Stranger: if its just an egg with some jizz in it its not so responsive

You: What?

You: You don't understand how human development works, do you?

Stranger: probably not as good as you

Stranger: but eh

Stranger: care to enlighten me

You: When the sperm and egg meet, a whole new organism is created.

Stranger: well duh

You: By the time abortions happen, the baby has a beating heart.

Stranger: yea

Stranger: cows have a beating heart

Stranger: are you a vegetarian

Stranger: possibyl a bad argument

You: The baby is also a human being.

Stranger: yea

Stranger: thought youd say that

Stranger: ummmmmmm

Stranger: well

Stranger: theres a lot of things that have potential that never reach it

Stranger: not just little babies

You: My point was that abortions don't kill "an egg with some jizz in it"

Stranger: ha yea got it

You: I'm not talking about potential.

Stranger: oh

Stranger: alright

You: I'm talking about unborn babies that are human right now.

Stranger: well yea

Stranger: and you kill them

Stranger: its murder

Stranger: but its convenient

You: So is murder for convenience okay?

Stranger: and its a personal decision-if your morals dont stop you from it

Stranger: why shouldnt it be

Stranger: its not harming anyone else

Stranger: but teh victim

Stranger: the*

You: A teen mom recently killed her baby 4 months after birth "to make her life easier".

You: Was that okay?

Stranger: hmm

Stranger: well who am i to say what is ok

You: Is it okay to own a slave?

Stranger: i dont even like the idea of judging people who kill for fun

Stranger: i could not be a judge or a lwyer

Stranger: law*

Stranger: i dont like the idea of prison even

Stranger: even though i know its nessecary

Stranger: but no its not ok for slave

You: Why not?

Stranger: because you are no better than the slave

You: Lots of people believed it was perfectly moral to own a slave.

Stranger: so why should you command it

You: Why is a plantation owner not allowed to make the personal decision to own a slave when his morals don't stop him?

Stranger: i like your arguments

Stranger: they are tricky to counter

Stranger: well

Stranger: the slave also has power to defend his rights

You: Not really.

Stranger: well

You: If he stands up he is beaten or even killed.

Stranger: the owner can see his desire for freedom

Stranger: and it is more real

Stranger: than an unborn babies

Stranger: in my opinion

Stranger: the slave is level with the owner as a human

You: So it's only wrong to kill someone if they can stand up for themselves?

Stranger: no

You: The wholesale slaughter of the weak and defenseless is okay?

You: Why not?

Stranger: but it deals with a whole other set of morals

Stranger: when you see the victim fighting back

Stranger: so if someone owned a slave

Stranger: um

Stranger: i dunno what i was getting at

You: Was it okay for the mother to kill her baby 4 months after birth?

Stranger: all i can say is, yes it is ok, and then look like a heartless person

Stranger: after?

You: Yeah.

You: She said she did it to "make her life easier"

Stranger: well

Stranger: the other thing thats tricky

Stranger: it is hard to tell someone to NOT do somethin

Stranger: g

Stranger: when its their body

Stranger: so when the baby is in a woman, its like a part of hera

Stranger: its like her arm or her leg

Stranger: you canot stop her from doing whta she wants with it

Stranger: sure you can tell her it is wrong

You: The baby is his or her own person, not an appendage of her mother.

Stranger: but its difficult to justify forcing her to have the baby

Stranger: because she feels that it is part of her

You: So?

Stranger: yea i suppose

Stranger: so what

You: A plantation owner feels his slave is his property.

Stranger: yup

You: That doesn't make it true.

Stranger: mhm

Stranger: haha

Stranger: you got me stranger

Stranger: not fully though

Stranger: but i never think about this

Stranger: because im a young boy

You: For a young boy you have some pretty sick views.

Stranger: and i have never met anyone in that situation

Stranger: oh i do

You: No offense.

Stranger: i was kind of playing teh devils advocate

Stranger: for your benifit

You: So you don't really believe those things?

Stranger: so we could reach a destinatiion in the argument

Stranger: ummm

Stranger: i could never say what i would do exactly untill it happened to me

Stranger: but if i thought enough about it

Stranger: i could probably reach the same place that you are at

Stranger: but i would never try to force any of it on someone else

You: Do you really think that it's okay to kill someone as long as they can't fight back or get angry at you?

Stranger: i dont

Stranger: but

Stranger: its important to realize why you cant

Stranger: so i asked that querstion

Stranger: i mean honestly, the next door neighbor is annoying, why don yuo just kill him

Stranger: then yuo have to think

You: Okay, thank God.

Stranger: why not?

Stranger: and then you realize

Stranger: taht each person is like you

Stranger: and you are not in any position to destroy others

Stranger: haha

Stranger: 'destroy'

Stranger: yea

Stranger: well

Stranger: there you go

You: Okay.

You: What do you mean "but i would never try to force any of it on someone else"?

Stranger: well if i knew a girl that was thinking about getting an abortion

Stranger: i wouldnt give my opinion

Stranger: because i dont feel strongly enough about it

Stranger: and i am not sure about anything

Stranger: so i would let her decide and not interfer

Stranger: e

You: If a girl you knew was going to kill her born child, would you speak up, or would you just let her do what she wanted?

Stranger: i would let her do what she wanted

Stranger: no

Stranger: shit

Stranger: i read that wrong

Stranger: you said 'born' again

Stranger: haha

Stranger: of course i would not allow taht

You: Why not?

Stranger: thats where i can safely determine what i know to be wrong

Stranger: and what is unclear

Stranger: i can see the babies potential and his responses

Stranger: so its different

You: So if you can't see someone as easily they loose their right to live?

Stranger: its not the sight

Stranger: its the lack of understanding

Stranger: of the condition of an egg

Stranger: and what it can DO'

Stranger: as an egg

You: There's no longer any egg after fertilization.

Stranger: ok

Stranger: i have a hypathetical

You: There's a human being.

Stranger: what if tehre was a magic fairy

Stranger: and she could do something miracul;ous

Stranger: she cold turn stones into people

Stranger: every time you throw a rock in the lake

Stranger: yuo are killlng a baby

Stranger: but really you arent right?

Stranger: your just throwing a rock

Stranger: you dont know how it work

Stranger: s

You: What?

You: I don't get it.

Stranger: ok

You: Those rocks aren't babies.

Stranger: not YET

You: They're not people.

Stranger: not YET they arent

Stranger: but they can be turned into babies

Stranger: just with a flick of a magic wand

You: An unborn baby doesn't need to be turned into anything.

Stranger: its turned into a born baby

Stranger: right

You: The baby is already a human being and already had human rights.

You: Not really.

Stranger: but its unborn and its at a smaller level of conciesness

You: No more than a toddler is turned into a child or a child into a teen.

Stranger: yes

Stranger: much different

You: How is it different?

Stranger: an unborn baby is at the bare minimal of human existence. it can barely think

Stranger: its thoughts are so minimal

Stranger: it may not have concern for its life

Stranger: it may not know what it means to be alive

You: So your right to live is determined by your throughts?

Stranger: perhaps it is

You: thoughts*

Stranger: who knows

You: Even a newborn baby acts purely on instinct.

Stranger: dude

Stranger: theres people

Stranger: in the world

Stranger: whoa re on both sides of this and its very popular

Stranger: on each side

Stranger: there are geniouses

Stranger: smart people

Stranger: who think about it a lot

Stranger: you have to admit that there is reason to both sides

You: There were smart people arguing for slavery and against sufferage for women.

Stranger: how can you just say that one is right and the other is wrong

Stranger: uhhh

Stranger: hah i dont know what to say

Stranger: and those smart people were challenged by smarter people

Stranger: and they lost

Stranger: end of debate

You: Yeah.

Stranger: this is happening right now with this topic

You: Was it okay to own a slave back when there was still a debate?

Stranger: im not saying i need to wait for some smart guy to tell me that it is wrong

Stranger: if i lived when tehre were slaves

Stranger: i might not tell someone that it is wrong

Stranger: to own one

You: Why not?

Stranger: well

Stranger: its the common situation

Stranger: im not a preacher

You: Would you tell a man in the olden days that it's wrong to rape his wife?

Stranger: uhhh

Stranger: probably

You: It used to be that nothing between a husband and wife was considered rape, even legally.

You: It took a Supreme Court decision to change that.

Stranger: dude

Stranger: what do you do for a living

Stranger: how old are you

Stranger: you make sense

You: Let's skip right to the part where you suggest I be a lawyer, lol

Stranger: haha not quite

Stranger: yuo need to be heartless for that job

You: Haha, true.

Stranger: i could be a lawyer because i could defend any side

You: FYI, it's not that I make sense.

You: You just don't make any sense.

You: ;)

Stranger: oh shit

Stranger: i take offence to that

You: lol

Stranger: but really

Stranger: hot old are you

Stranger: im curious

Stranger: im 17

You: You are the one saying you wouldn't've stood up against slavery.

You: Same.

Stranger: well if it were presented as a case in a corthouse

Stranger: i could willingly take either side

Stranger: is what i meant

You: But you wouldn't've told anyone it was wrong.

Stranger: im skeptical about everything

Stranger: so i rarely make decisions like that

Stranger: i dunn

Stranger: o

Stranger: DUDEEEEEEEEEEEE

Stranger: why did you open with that question

You: Because it's a more interesting conversation than "asl".

Stranger: i hate 'asl'

Stranger: with a passion

You: Yeah.

Stranger: did you see how i opened

Stranger: before you said it

Stranger: i said 'im gonna own you'

Stranger: so if you had nothing to bring to the table i could have pretended to be some clown or whatnot

Stranger: but i quickly abandoned that rout

You: Yeah, I didn't get that.

Stranger: hah

Stranger: nothing to get

You: Okay.

Stranger: how many others have there been

Stranger: that have had this same argument

You: Huh?

Stranger: with you

Stranger: i mean

Stranger: how many other people have you done this too

You: Hmm.

You: I'm not counting.

Stranger: but not just me

You: Yeah.

Stranger: how do i rank on the scale of entertaining arguments

You: I don't know.

You: Tell me how you really feel, not playing Devil's advocate.

Stranger: i thought i explained

Stranger: i cannot decide

Stranger: i do see the sense in your argument

Stranger: but i also understand the pregnant girls situation, even if it is wrong, who am i to stop it

Stranger: its unclear to me

Stranger: how it works

Stranger: in teh womb

You: The same person you are to stop her from killing her born child or from owning a slave or shoot up a school.

You: A defender of the rights of the innocent.

Stranger: what if you found out that reincarnation is true

Stranger: and every insect at some point will be a human being

Stranger: does that mean every time you kill a bug you are doing the same thing as abortion

Stranger: perhaps

You: We've gone over this before.

Stranger: yes

You: The baby is already human.

Stranger: i dont know that

Stranger: how do you define 'human'

You: Also, if there's reincarnation, killing the bug actually would be the opposite.

Stranger: a human has to think for themself, have awareness of the past and see their future

You: That's not true.

Stranger: thats what some might say

Stranger: how can you be the one to correctly define a human

You: Newborns are human, and they don't do any of those.

Stranger: who can say what we really are no one knows

You: Biologists have defined a human already. A human is any organism of the species H. sapiens.

Stranger: dude

Stranger: your not open

Stranger: to this idea

You: Are newborns not human?

Stranger: there is some crazy professor somewhere that thinks we should murder babies that are born with mental illnesses

Stranger: even after they are born

Stranger: he defines a human differently

Stranger: but tehre is no denying that the man is very very smart

You: He defines a person differently.

Stranger: exactly

You: He does not deny that a baby is a human being.

You: But there are intelligent Nazis even.

Stranger: what do you like to do for fun

You: Play Tetris.

Stranger: for reals

Stranger: that sucks

You: ?

Stranger: you just play tetrus

Stranger: ris*

You: Tetris is awesome what you talkin' 'bout?

Stranger: ha well it gets boring

Stranger: what do you do when your not playing tetris

Stranger: ]or not on any video game or computer

You: Politics.

Stranger: of course

Stranger: well sir

Stranger: i dont know what to say

You: Just a sec.

Stranger: i can say what you would say

Stranger: if i said this

Stranger: women and blacks had voices to speak up for themselves

Stranger: unborn babies dont

Stranger: and you would say

You: Neither do born babies.

Stranger: i said that already

Stranger: but i mean

Stranger: you would say that you its not right to kill someone just because they cannot defend themselves with a voice

Stranger: and i would say well sure

Stranger: but thats why this topic is so controversial because there are no unborn babies speaking up for themselves

Stranger: no one knows what the REALLY feel like about the issue

Stranger: juts like animal abuse in big farm companies, who will be the one to speak up for the poor chickens

You: Did you ever answer my question about if it was okay for that mom to kill her baby 4 months after birth?

Stranger: yes i said tisnt

Stranger: he is nto voiceless though

You: Huh?

Stranger: that baby can speak with his smile

Stranger: and hiss cuteness

Stranger: the public can see it

Stranger: and no one wants to kill that

You: She did.

You: She killed him to "make her life easier".

Stranger: well she would go to jail

Stranger: that wouldnt be easy

Stranger: people can abort babies and not go to jail

You: Okay, what about the woman who killed her baby right after birth?

Stranger: same thing dude

You: Actually, this happened in Virginia and the placenta was still inside her.

Stranger: eww

You: It was legally unprosecutable.

Stranger: well fuck

Stranger: thats just gross

You: The law technically didn't count the baby as a separate person.

Stranger: you would think that she herself would grow attatched to it

Stranger: after all that time

You: Nobody else knew about the baby's birth until it was too late.

You: Oh, and the teen mom only tried to kill the born baby 4 months after birth; she didnt succeed

You: Was it okay for her to kill the baby?

Stranger: dude

You: Nobody knew of the baby, the baby could not speak up or fight back, and the baby could not think for himself or have awareness of the past and see his future

Stranger: well then according to some people

You: When she suffocated the kid in the bedsheets between her legs, did she do anything wrong?

Stranger: maybe she didnt

Stranger: ok

Stranger: maybe thats perfectly ok

Stranger: come on of course

Stranger: what do yuo think asking something like that

You: I'm not asking what some people say. Some people think all Jews should be killed.

Stranger: the lady must have been crazy

You: I'm asking what's right.

Stranger: she goes to prison for being crazy

You: Not true.

Stranger: dude

Stranger: ugh

You: She never went to jail.

Stranger: why not

You: Because the law didn't count it as murder.

Stranger: some law

Stranger: where was this

You: Virginia.

Stranger: yuo can just kill babies

Stranger: for fun

Stranger: not illegal

Stranger: i dont believe it

You: The baby was still "attached" to the mother, so the law didn't count the baby as a separate person.

Stranger: ohhhhhh

Stranger: ewwwwwwwwwwe

You: I'll find the news article if you want proof.

Stranger: naw

Stranger: well theres always these extreme cases where it pushes one side to the edge of whats ok

Stranger: but i think im done

Stranger: we've covered everything

You: In fact, you just need to search for "Virginia infanticide".

You: Not everything.

You: You've still yet to answer my questions.

Stranger: which

You: Was it okay to kill the baby?

Stranger: I dont think so

You: Why not?

Stranger: because you should be able to recognize that the baby is a real person just like you. if you dont then there is something wrong with your ability to recognize this.

Stranger: not that you are evil

Stranger: its that you cannot recognize this

Stranger: is that it

You: But the baby cannot speak up or fight back, and the baby could not think for himself or have awareness of the past and see his future

Stranger: well if thats what teh lady defines as a human than in her head she can justify killing it

Stranger: but I myself would not be able to justify it

You: Would it still be wrong for her to kill the baby?

Stranger: not in her head

Stranger: who says whats right and whats wrong

Stranger: clouded judgement makes it difficult to say this

You: Should the law have allowed her to kill the baby?

Stranger: i dont write laws, but if i did i would have drawn the line there probably

Stranger: someone has got to choose a point and make it the law

Stranger: because none of us are supreme, we must all vote on it

Stranger: so if people feel that way then thats law

You: Should she have been allowed to kill her baby if she had done so a couple hours ago, when the baby was still inside her?

Stranger: i dont know

Stranger: i would not do that myself

Stranger: but if i were writing the law i would get the opinion of the state or whatever area of people

Stranger: and let them collaborate

Stranger: because once again, i am not oen to say what it right or not

Stranger: one*

You: If a state wanted to allow slavery, would that be okay?

Stranger: ummmmmmmmmm

Stranger: well that state is part of a bigger nation

Stranger: that disagrees with it

Stranger: and that nation is part of a bigger world

Stranger: and hopefully as humans the rest of the world can see issue with that

You: There was a point when slavery was generally accepted.

Stranger: yup

You: It was constitutionally protected for a while.

You: Did that make slavery okay?

Stranger: mhm

Stranger: um

Stranger: ok how

Stranger: that depends

Stranger: if i lived in the time

Stranger: and i inherited a slave or something

Stranger: i might set it free

Stranger: but i wouldnt go yell at the person who gave it to me

You: Would it have been okay for slavery to be banned?

Stranger: if the people say so

You: Can you email me? I need to go eat dinner but this is a very interesting conversation.

Stranger: and tthey did

Stranger: i cannot email you

Stranger: hahah

Stranger: hahaha

Stranger: haha!

You: Why not?

Stranger: thats funny to hear you say that

Stranger: i dont give my email out

Stranger: to anyone

You: Okay.

Stranger: yup

Stranger: ha

Stranger: fun times right

You: Do you have AOL or anything?

Stranger: nothing of the sort

Stranger: this will be the last time you speak to me

Stranger: but we covered a lot right

Stranger: good stuff

You: If I give you my email, can you create a random one and email me?

Stranger: haha

Stranger: i could but im not going to do this

You: It's not hard to set up.

Stranger: yea i know it would be easy

Stranger: but i want to minimalize my time on the computer

Stranger: that would give me an excuse to come on here instead of go play the piano or something

Stranger: then i would do it again

You: Are you in the USA?

Stranger: yup

You: Can you text me?

Stranger: haha

Stranger: dude

Stranger: its not happening

Stranger: go enjoy your dinner

Stranger: you are stubborn

Stranger: in many ways

You: Hmm.

Stranger: do you think god is real

You: No.

Stranger: oh

Stranger: i thought that you might say yes or no

Stranger: but i cant say either

Stranger: were a good pair for arguments

Stranger: thanks for helping me kill an hour

You: :)

You: Could you stay on?

Stranger: like rigth now

Stranger: probably not

Stranger: due

Stranger: dude

Stranger: (you are a dude right?)

Stranger: just go have your dinner

Stranger: and be a happy camper

Stranger: like me!

You: Skype?

Stranger: haha

Stranger: stop that

Stranger: its not happening

Stranger: even if i did have that

Stranger: i wouldnt

Stranger: now go!

Stranger: go save this conversation or something

You: Phone #?

Stranger: dude no

Stranger: NOTHING

Stranger: cut it out

You: Fax?

Stranger: not funny

Stranger: alright im going now

Stranger: have some more fun adventures stranger

Stranger: peace

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