forget the laws

You're now chatting with a random stranger. Say hi!

You: hi asl

Stranger: hi there

Stranger: 19 f canada here, you?

You: 17 m usa

Stranger: cool

You: sup

Stranger: so what's up?

You: lol

You: not much

You: summer

Stranger: lol true enough

You: yep

You: so how do you feel about abortion?

Stranger: it seems like a good option

You: late-term abortion too?

Stranger: sure

You: through all 9 months?

Stranger: yup, i'd say the cut off is at birth

You: so a 6-month premature baby can't be killed but a 9-month fetus can?

Stranger: like i said, birth is the cut off

You: look i've got nothing against vaginas but they aren't magic; passing through one doesn't change who you are.

Stranger: alright then

Stranger: to be completely honest

Stranger: this pro choice stuff is lame'

Stranger: instead

Stranger: we should have pro-abortion, or pro-death if you will

Stranger: mandatory abortions

You: Then why stop at birth?

You: We've got enough nukes to end all life on the planet.

Stranger: because babies are easier to kill

You: You seen Hiroshima?

Stranger: yes, i was there back in the day

You: People can be vaporized.

Stranger: the whol;e thing was blown way out of porportion

You: Or we could just poison the atmosphere.

You: Everyone's gotta breath.

Stranger: go for it

You: You're shitting me, aren't you?

Stranger: more or less

Stranger: bottom line, women have the right to do whatever the hell they want to to something that's inside of them

Stranger: at least that's how i see it

You: Does the same apply to men?

Stranger: yes

You: Okay, what if I were to shrink you down and swallow you, and then slowly and painfully digest you in my stomach?

You: Would the murder be okay because it happened inside me?

Stranger: yes, if you invent a shrink ray, then i think you've earned the right to kill whoever you want

You: What if I just stole one?

Stranger: that would be fine too

Stranger: all things shrink ray related arte fine in my books

You: What if I used a grow ray on myself?

Stranger: grow rays are fine too

You: What if I just got really fat?

Stranger: you would have a hard time catching people to eat

Stranger: you'd be too slow

You: I'd use a Segway and a stun gun.

Stranger: this is acceptable to me

Stranger: maybe when you're done eating people you could wash it down with a few fetuses

You: It is?

You: Are you serious?

Stranger: yes

Stranger: i hate babies

Stranger: kill as many of them as you want

You: I'm talking about midgets, not babies.

Stranger: those are fine too

Stranger: eat anyone slow enough to be cuaght and eaten

You: What about you? Are you fine?

Stranger: its natural selection

Stranger: yup, you could eat me too

Stranger: i have it coming

You: What if I just put you in my ear and hacked you to death with a chainsaw?

Stranger: put me in your ear?

You: yes.

You: The thing you hear with.

Stranger: i'm aware

You: Would that be okay?

Stranger: sure, go right ahead

You: But not if I killed you first?

Stranger: no, that would be fine too

You: What if I killed you and didn't put you inside me afterwards?

Stranger: go for it

Stranger: kill whoever you want

You: You're shitting me again.

Stranger: no sir

Stranger: forget the laws

Stranger: and the social convention

Stranger: just do anything you want

Stranger: who am i to tell you not to?

You: Do you really think that?

Stranger: yes

You: You're trolling.

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0039

You're now chatting with a random stranger. Say hi!

Stranger: Hi.

You: Hey there.

You: How do you feel about abortion?

Stranger: I feel that people should be allowed to have an abortion under certain conditions.

You: Which circumstances would these be?

Stranger: For example, if the would-be mother is very young or is for some reason not fit to be a mother.

You: Does this apply through all 9 months?

Stranger: No, the abortion would have to be early on.

You: Why?

You: Why does the baby get more important as she ages?

Stranger: I don't know, but according to my country's laws it must be withing a certain time limit.

Stranger: And I figure that there must be a reason for that.

You: What's your country?

Stranger: Iceland.

You: Okay, I don't know much about Icelandic law.

You: But in the USA, slavery used to be legal.

You: The Holocaust was completely legal.

You: The law is a terrible yardstick for morality.

Stranger: Are you implying that you think abortion is wrong?

You: Sorry, I should've stated that.

You: I oppose homicide.

You: Abortion in and of itself is not wrong; it's the killing of the embryo or fetus, not the termination of the pregnancy, that I have a problem with.

Stranger: Well, I am not very opinionated on this matter.

Stranger: I do believe that under certain conditions, abortion can be justified.

You: Is this your view, or the view of Icelandic laws?

Stranger: It is also my view.

You: Why?

Stranger: If, for example, the would-be mother was the victim of rape, would you require her to have the child?

You: If a child was conceived of rape, would you punish him for a crime committed before he even existed?

Stranger: Well, I don't think the mother would love the child as much as she would love her own child.

You: So, it's okay to kill someone if their mother doesn't love them?

Stranger: So being born into these circumstances is punishment all of its own.

You: I have a few friends whose mothers were raped, and they're glad to be aliv.

You: alive*

Stranger: Well, if the fetus is only a few weeks old it doesn't really have a consciousness.
I don't think it can feel a thing at that stage.

You: Does that really matter?

You: The same thing can be said of anyone under general anesthesia.

Stranger: Well, the fetus is barely alive.

You: There's no such thing.

Stranger: Some consider the life to start when you're born.

You: You're alive or you aren't.

Stranger: True.

Stranger: However, there is a difference.

You: The embryo is growing, developing, reacting to stimuli, and requires nutrients.

You: Any high school biology textbook will tell you what that means.

Stranger: Yes, however, I do not consider a fetus to be a person.
That's just my opinion. Arguing about it won't change anything.

You: Do you consider a fetus to be a human being?

Stranger: Yes.

You: So, you think some human beings aren't people?

Stranger: If they are not yet born, have never had any contact with anyone, do not have a personality, then you could say they're not persons.

You: What do you mean by "personality" and "contact"?

Stranger: The fetus has had no impact on the world, other than on the mother.
I don't think I need to explain personality.

You: Because later-term babies can recognize their parents' voice.

You: Well, I'm not sure newborns would qualify, then.

Stranger: Well, as you said, "later-term babies can recognize their parents' voice." When they are just a few weeks old, they can't.

You: But you also said "If they are not yet born".

You: And my mother is pregnant with twins ATM. They have quite an impact on me.

Stranger: I said before that I do not approve of abortion after the fetus is months old.
I think that's morally wrong.

You: Why?

Stranger: Well, they are closer to being persons. I can't really explain it.

You: She's the same person no matter how old she is.

Stranger: She?

Stranger: And is "she" really?

You: Is she really what?

Stranger: Really the same person. Would you consider a group of cells that could be anyone the same person as when the individual is grown up?

You: Yes.

You: Even a newborn is a group of cells that could be anyone.

You: Who you are is constantly shaped until you die.

Stranger: Yes, but it starts after you're born.

You: Actually, that's not true.

Stranger: Okay, what the mother eats has an effect before you're born.

Stranger: But I don't think you could have a considerable impact on personality.

You: Things like music and food preferences are influenced by conditions in utero.

Stranger: Has that been proven?

You: Yes.

You: Not until 32 weeks, but yes.

You: http://www.ehd.org/dev_article_unit18.php#memorymusicpref

Stranger: Aha.

Stranger: Well, that's 8 months.

You: Yes, but that's before birth.

Stranger: I never said abortion was right after such a long time.

You: Okay, so take out the "are not yet born" part from your justification.

Stranger: Well, okay.

You: Okay, so someone needs to have an impact on the world to have rights?

Stranger: No.

You: Then why bring it up?

Stranger: I don't know. I wasn't sure how to define "person". I'm kinda tired.

You: Okay.

You: Well, you wanna email me when you're rested?

You: I think it makes sense to define "person" as "human being".

Stranger: I'd say a person is a "self-conscious or rational being."

You: http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=person

You: Well, if that's your standard you're gonna need to support infanticide.

Stranger: Self conscious being the key word there.

You: Self-consciousness comes at 1 year after birth at the earliest.

You: 18 months possibly.

Stranger: Well, a new-born has feeling.

You: Some people do follow that standard to its logical conclusion.

Stranger: feelings*

You: I know a guy who considers infants and those with severe mental handicaps to be nonpersons.

You: I hope you don't.

Stranger: I don't.

You: Then clearly self-consciousness is a terrible yardstick.

You: You seem to be grasping at straws now and contradicting yourself in order to support a conclusion instead of building one from the facts.

You: You're following the logical process backwards.

Stranger: I admit, I do not think about the subject very much and I have not prepared myself for this argument beforehand.

You: Your conclusions should flow from your arguments, not vice versa.

You: Well, if you haven't thought about it, I would suggest not taking a stance until you do.

Stranger: I do have an opinion, it's just not one I think about often.
Honestly, I don't even know why I'm still here.

Stranger: It must be pure stubbornness.

You: There's really no reason I've found to deny someone their human rights because of age.

You: Must be.

You: How did you form your opinion?

Stranger: I'm not sure.

You: You should look at your beliefs.

You: Your standard of self-consciousness clearly fails when scritinized.

Stranger: How so?

You: Well, you do not support killing other human beings that fail that standard.

You: I'd say you only apply it prenatally, but you oppose late-term abortions.

You: I'm not sure how it comes into play to support your stance.

Stranger: All right.

Stranger: Well, would you say an animal is a person?

You: Depends on the animal.

Stranger: Is a chimpanzee a person?

You: No.

Stranger: What animal would you say is a person?

You: Humans.

Stranger: Okay. I meant animals other than humans. I should have specified that.

You: Personally, I do not.

Stranger: Because there is a difference between animals and humans, is there not?

You: Humans are animals.

Stranger: Again, when I say animals I mean animals other than humans.

You: Yes, there is.

You: DNA

You: Species.

Stranger: Okay. Would you say it is wrong to kill a dog? Or an ape?

You: No, I would not.

You: But if we're going by mental capabilities, we're back to the issue of newborns.

Stranger: Why? The only difference between us and them is DNA, as you said.

You: And species.

You: That's important.

Stranger: Different DNA, different species.

Stranger: It goes hand in hand.

You: Morality itself evolved as a sort of biological leash upon interactions within a species.

You: Not true; my sister and I have different DNA but we're both human.

You: All species have some degree of morality.

Stranger: Yes, but the amount of difference is what makes you a different species.

You: I guess.

You: I've gotta go soon; could you email me?

Stranger: So, the only real difference between you and a dog is DNA.

Stranger: Why? So we can continue arguing?
I don't see the point.

You: I'd like to expand on the basis of my morality.

You: This is much more interesting than 94% of the conversations here.

Stranger: Incidentally, 94% of statistics on the internet are made up on the spot.

You: True.

Stranger: Well, I guess you could have my e-mail, but don't expect me to e-mail you first.
I will most likely reply, though.

[snip]

Stranger: Anyways, the point that I was getting at was that when the fetus is only a few weeks old the difference between it and the fetuses of other mammals is minimal.

Stranger: The only real difference is DNA.

You: There's a minimal difference up until 18 months

You: We shouldn't assign rights based on mental capacity.

Stranger: There is significant difference between born individuals.

You: I'll continue on email i g2g.

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I guess pro-choicers don't have navels.

You're now chatting with a random stranger. Say hi!

Stranger: hey

You: Hey there, Stranger.

You: How do you feel about abortion?

Stranger: i'm ok with it

Stranger: u

You: I'm against it.

Stranger: I think its overused

Stranger: but i think its neccessary

You: If it's okay, how can it be overused?

Stranger: the blacks and white trash use it and a preventive measure instead of birth control

Stranger: as a*

You: If the unborn baby does not have the right to live, the reason for the abortion is irrelevant.

Stranger: the baby has no rights its unborn

You: Why does that matter?

Stranger: its a potentially deadly disease running thru a womans body

Stranger: if i was a woman i'd never have a kid

You: Are you calling me a disease?

Stranger: yea you probably are

Stranger: since your against abortions

Stranger: probably right wing christian southerner

Stranger: probably against gays marrying too

You: No, left wing atheist midwesterner.

You: Totally for gay marriage.

Stranger: than why the hate for abortion?

You: Same reason I hate infanticide.

Stranger: if your sister got raped by a black guy and became pregnant because of it

You: Why does the race of the rapist matter?

Stranger: your unrealistic

Stranger: lets say the rapist killed your whole family and left her to live

You: So, the rapist's offspring should be killed for a crime committed before she existed?

You: The unborn child did nothing wrong, and didn't ask to be conceived.

You: I oppose abortion because it intentionally and intentfully takes the life of an innocent human being.

You: And I am very offended that you called me a disease.

You: You there?

You: Hello?

Europe and the USA are the only countries that exist.

You're now chatting with a random stranger. Say hi!

You: Hey.

You: How do you feel about abortion?

Stranger: whats there to feel

Stranger: i dont care

Stranger: only idiots want to ban that

You: Really?

Stranger: yeah

You: How about late-term abortions, like at 8 or 9 months?

Stranger: off with their heads i say

Stranger: do you know what its like to raise a sick child?

You: How about abortion?

Stranger: i just told you

Stranger: i'm pro choice

You: Okay.

Stranger: if parents dont want it then they dont want it

You: How about infanticide?

Stranger: infanticide? you mean killing infants?

You: That's what "infanticide" means.

Stranger: i know what it means

Stranger: why would anyone kill an infant

You: Why not?

You: Maybe it's disabled or unwanted.

Stranger: look there's a difference between birth control and infanticide. if you're religious say so now i wont waste my breath on you

You: I'm not religious.

You: And I've got nothing against birth control.

Stranger: okay then we're on the same page

You: No, we aren't.

Stranger: aight so whats your point then

You: We agree on birth control and infanticide.

You: We disagree on abortion.

Stranger: eh

Stranger: why then

You: Why what?

Stranger: why are you against it

Stranger: if you're not religious

You: Why am I against abortion?

Stranger: yes

Stranger: thats what i asked

You: Same reason I'm against infanticide and murder and war and the death penalty: it kills an innocent human being.

You: And deprives him or her of his or her future.

Stranger: you're american arent you

You: Yes, I am.

Stranger: yeah i figured

Stranger: you guys are so fucking confused when it comes to shit like this

Stranger: rest of the world isnt even discussing this anymore

You: What do I have wrong?

You: Is the fetus not a human being?

Stranger: theoretically it is yes

You: Theoretically?

Stranger: but if you fuck your girlfriend and she gets pregnant at like 18 what are you gonna do?

You: You mean technically?

Stranger: have the baby?

You: Yes.

Stranger: now why would you do something so stupid

You: Well, fuck my boyfriend.

You: But still.

Stranger: well as i said you can have the baby if you want, i'm pro choice it's yours and if you want to ruin your life go ahead what do i care. but you cant dictate anyone your morals

You: But you'd dictate people your morals on infanticide?

Stranger: one is murder, the other is birth control

Stranger: alright so let me tell you this

You: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/birth%20control

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Um, are you asleep?

You're now chatting with a random stranger. Say hi!

You: Hi.

You: How do you feel about abortion?

Stranger: I'm getting a blowjob

Stranger: I think abortion is necessary

You: When?

Stranger: At any point a women chooses to under 5-6 months of pregnancy.

You: Why 5-6 months?

Stranger: 5-6 months is when a fetus starts to develop a heartbeat, regular blood flow, and operating brain patterns

Stranger: And muscles start to grow and operate

You: A heartbeat happens WAY before 5-6 months.

You: http://www.ehd.org/science_main.php?level=i

Stranger: A regular heartbeat. Before 5 months a fetuses heart beats are extremely irregular

Stranger: I used to work with abortion doctors

You: Okay, so people with irregular heartbeats can be killed?

Stranger: If you are a pro-lifer hell bent on taking away a right of the American woman

Stranger: Leave me alone

You: You are a pro-choicer hell bent on taking away the right of the American baby.

Stranger: It is a fucking fetus. It isn't a person. You all act as if they wait for the baby to be born and then stab it

You: So, a baby born prematurely at 5 months can be killed?

Stranger: So you think banning abortion is the right thing to do? Cause it'll "save the lives of babies"?

You: No, I don't.

You: Abortion can't just be banned outright; what am I, insane?

You: We need to put in place prevention, education, and social services first.

You: Getting rid of abstinence-only education and for-profit health care should be a good start.

Stranger: Of course we do. But abortions should still be readily available to all women. You can educate and give them tons of social services

You: Followed by things like universal paid maternity leave and streamlined adoption.

Stranger: That won't take away ectopic pregnancies and rape babies

You: Are you saying those concieved in rape can be killed?

You: For a crime committed before they even existed?

Stranger: I'm saying a woman should not be forced to go through childbirth if she was raped and conceived a child against her will

You: What did the fetus do to deserve death

Stranger: What did the mother do to deserve to be raped and then forced to have an unwanted child that she has to birth

You: Nothing, which is why rape is illegal.

Stranger: Yeah so is murder, still happens.

You: And murderers get justice.

You: But the rape issue is really a red herring; you support abortion for any reason.

Stranger: And so do rape victims. They also get the CONSTITUTIONAL right to abort the pregnancy

You: Where in the constitution is the right to abortion?

You: I've got it on my iPod.

Stranger: Yes I do. But if a woman is using abortion as some crude contraception, then that's wrong

You: Point me to the article and section, or amendment and section

Stranger: No they have s constitutional right to choice and freedom. They have a constitutional right to healthcare now. And abortions are health care. Or should be covered as such

You: The health care bill was modest reform, and is a statutory thing.

You: You claimed that the right was constitutional. I'm asking for where it is in the Constitution.

Stranger: The health care bill has directed a universal health care plan to all Americans. They have a right to be CARED for. If they do not wish to have a child, they should MIT be forced to

Stranger: It is not in the constitution. But to strip us our right to choice is unconstitutional

You: Are you talking about Obama's bill?

Stranger: Yes obama's bill.

You: Obama's bill was stripped of universal coverage early on; it's just a system of insurance exchanges that don't take affect until 2014.

Stranger: It isn't a completely universal health care plan, but he paved the way fir the most part

You: Tell me exactly where in the Constitution the right to abortion is.

You: I can find a copy of the constitution if you need.

You: http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html

Stranger: The bill instructs businesses with over 50 employees to cover health care as a benefit.

Stranger: I already said it isn't on the constitution. But our right to choice is a foundation on America.

You: "Choose" is a transitive verb. Right to choose what?

Stranger: Choose to have a child or not.

You: We have a right to choose what to wear and what to say, but we don't have a right to choose to commit arson.

You: A pregnant woman already HAS a child.

You: I'm just saying she can't kill him/her

Stranger: We have a right to commit anything. I can choose to commit murder right now. Or I can choose to commit an act of burgalary. I have the right to choose that. I don't have the right to choose the jailyime I would get

You: You have the ABILITY. You do not have the RIGHT.

Stranger: I have the RIGHT of CHOICE

You: So if I killed you, would that be okay?

Stranger: No it wouldn't. But it is okay that you were able to choose that. And you weren't forced to by some jackasses in DC

You: Why wouldn't it be okay?

Stranger: You'd get jailtime for your choice

You: Why?

Stranger: Because murder is illegal. Choice isn't illegal

You: The choice to murder is illegal.

Stranger: You choose to commit a crime

You: Yes, and you are punished for that choice.

Stranger: No the act of murder is illegal. The choice is not

You: If I killed you on accident or because I was forced to, I would get a lesser sentence.

You: It's known as mens rea.

Stranger: If I said "I choose to murder you" I would not be arrested. If i DID murder you, I would be

You: True.

Stranger: Even on accident or forcibly it is still manslaughter in some degree

You: There are 2 elements to any crime.

Stranger: And you'd still be processed and arrested

You: Mens rea and actus reus

You: I said LESSER sentence.

Stranger: Yes you said lesser sentence. But I was referring to your stance on abortion. The government can not FORCE me to have a child

You: No, they can't.

You: But they CAN stop you from killing one.

Stranger: Which is in turn forcing me to have one

Stranger: Which is unconstitutional

You: You can't kill a child you don't already have.

Stranger: Listen to me. I conceive a child I don't want, ccondom broke. I have the right to choose the abort that pregnancy.

Stranger: I will nit be FORCED to have a mistake baby

You: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/pregnant

You: Okay, if a woman doesn't find out she's pregnant until the 8th month, you'd not let her abort?

You: By your logic, that's forcing her to have a child.

You: The point is, you are going against the CONSTITUTIONAL right to live

You: One I can actually source.

You: Amendment 5: No person shall be... deprived of life

You: Amendment 14: nor shall any state deprive any person of life... without due process of law

You: An innocent human being should not be KILLED.

You: Hello?

You: Helloooo?

You: So you're speechless.

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Kill the baby ... I am for it

Stranger: Errr... not. Ever heard of abortion?.

You: no

Stranger: You are able to abort the baby before it is born if you do it early enough in the pregnancy.

You: what does that mean?

You: u abort a computer program u cant abort a baby

Stranger: Kill the baby before it is born (before it has a heartbeat)

You: ok, so kill the baby

You: y didnt u just say

Stranger: Because killing requires actual life (a hearbeat), abortion is before the baby is alive.

You: lol life doesnt need a heartbeat

Stranger: I know, but legally that's the difference.

Stranger: A baby is legally alive once it has a heartbeat.

...

You: wait so its not legally alive without a heartbeat?

Stranger: Yeah, it isn't legally alive until it has a heartbeat, at least in most coutries.

You: thats dumb

Stranger: Hence abortion isn't considered as murder.

You: im in 7th grade and i know what alive means

Stranger: Yeah, but legal life and biological life are totally different things.

You: they shouldnt be

You: i mean what if i decided u werent legally alive how would u feel

You: laws should agree with science

Stranger: Bad, but it is a decision made with logical reasoning.

You: otherwise its whatever some lawyer decides

Stranger: ITs not only 'some' lawyer somewhere... it is the the people who make law. In US = Congress.

You: ok then its whatever congress decides

Stranger: Have you ever seen medical series in which when some1 dies and their heart meter goes into a straight line?

You: yeah and then they yell CLEAR and do the paddle thingy

Stranger: Yeah! Well, a baby without a heartbeat has a straight line.

Stranger: Hence its not legally alive.

You: but they're still alive when theres a flat line

You: u can bring them back until the brain dies

Stranger: Technically yes, but legally they are dead and hence cannot be murdered.

You: not sure thats right

Stranger: IT enables abortion to be legalised.

You: im 88% sure thats wrong

You: lemme google it

You: ok

You: it used to be the heartbeat but they changed it

Stranger: It also depends in what country you are.

You: ok

You: well lemme google that

Stranger: I mean, laws are different in different countries.

You: ok in the usa its legal until birth

Stranger: Fair enough. :)

You: no thats not fair!

Stranger: Well... yeah, it isn't exactly fair towards the baby.

You: and everyone's been a baby

You: so its not fair 2 anyone

Stranger: Well, abortion is good if the mother might die because of having a baby.

You: couldnt they just do a csection?

Stranger: C-sections are dangerous.

You: my bff was born that way

You: they did it to save her mom's life

Stranger: Yeah, but nevertheless it isn't totally riskless.

You: nothing is

You: but its better than killing hte baby

You: the*

Stranger: True.

You: i mean doctors should help not hurt

You: thats what doctors do

You: so if they can they should try and save mom and baby, right?

Stranger: Yeah, but if the mother wants to abort, she has the right to.

You: that makes no sense

You: u dont get 2 kill som1 just because u want to

You: thats messed up thinking

Stranger: It does, if you didn't plan to be pregnant, you got raped and are having a baby because of it.

You: so its the baby;s fault?

Stranger: No, it isn't the baby's fault.

You: so y is the baby punished

Stranger: I don't know.

Stranger: Because the mother doesn't want to be punished herself?

You: the baby didnt even exist when it happened

You: u cant just kill som1 2 make urself happier

Stranger: Nevertheless abortion is the biggest cause of death in the US.

You: more than cancer?

Stranger: So, go figure out how intelligent people are.

Stranger: Yes. More than cancer.

Stranger: And more than stroke.

You: more than heart attacks?

Stranger: Yes. At least so I have read.

You: and its legal?

Stranger: But it is what some1 could call 'easy' killing, because it is legal.

You: it shouldnt b

Stranger: So, there is some heated discussion in the medical world about the subject.

You: thats stupid

Stranger: Some say it shouldn't be done, and some say its the mother's right to abort.

You: r these ppl supervilins?

You: u cant kill ur kids thats wrong

You: evil

Stranger: Not really. They are just normal people.

You: wow

Stranger: They don't think it as 'killing their own kids'. They might think of it as 'killing the potential kids' they wouldn't want to raise anyway.

You: wtf is a potential kid

Stranger: So, sometimes it is used as a form of contraceptions...

You: ur a kid or u arent

You: doesnt contraception mean stopping conception?

You: thats like saying my mom could kill me now

Stranger: Well... its a moral question, a legal question and a biological question.

Stranger: So, some people are against it and some are for.

You: wow

You: some are for

Stranger: Personally I am for it only in some specific cases.

You: really?

You: like what?

Stranger: Yes, like rape victims.

You: omg

You: so instead if killing hte rapist we kill an innocent baby

You: that makes total sense

Stranger: That's why it is the victims choice.

You: so the victim can decide to make her baby into a second victim

You: thats stupid

You: the baby did nothing wrong

Stranger: She didn't want to have sex, she was raped, can you also force her to keep the baby and have to pay for the baby?

You: she could put the baby for adoption

You: but the rapist should get an extra punishment for forcing her 2 become a mom and abandoning his kid

Stranger: That's why rapists DO get punished extremely severely.

You: i hate rape as u can imagine

You: but its dumb 2 punish the baby with deat h4 something that she didnt do

You: something she didnt even EXIST when it happened

You: we dont even kill rapists, do we/?

Stranger: In most countries you do not.

You: but we kil innocent babis

You: babies

Stranger: Innocent babies that can't feel pain, don't have a heartbeat and haven't been born.

You: so?

You: i could kill u painlessly

Stranger: But I have been born and have a heartbeat.

Stranger: Which legally change the situation.

You: well its legal even after the heartbeat

Stranger: Yeah, but its 'the woman's body, and she can do whatever she wants with it' (feminist approach lol)

You: its not the woman's body thats killed

You: thats not feminist

Stranger: Well... as long as it is attached to the woman, it is part of the woman, hence she can decide.

You: thats not true

You: attached to does not mean part of

Stranger: True. But thats just how the cookie crumbles.

You: feminist means men and women get the same rights

You: im pretty sure everyone htinks that now

You: thinks*

Stranger: feminism has lots of other faces too.

You: men cant kill babies either

Stranger: Men can't get pregnant.

You: but they cant kill babies neither can women

You: if a man got pregnant its not like itd magically be okay to kill his babuy

You: baby*

Stranger: It would in most places in the world. It would be OK, which I find is morally wrong in most cases.

You: what?

Stranger: Abortion is legal, but morally wrong.

You: then it shouldnt b legal

Stranger: Go tell that to legislators.

You: i cant vote :(

Stranger: Shame...

You: yeh

You: im smarter than congress apparently

Stranger: Perhaps, however abortion is useful for women in some situations.

You: so?

You: killing born folks can be useful

Stranger: True...

You: my aunt had 9 kids im sure itd be nice if she could shoot a few

Stranger: She had the choice to use contraception.

You: idk maybe she did

You: but it doesnt matter her kids cant be killed

Stranger: They 'can' be killed but its illegal.

You: ok yes

You: smarty pants

Stranger: and immoral too.

Stranger: And against religion.

You: yeah

You: y does religion matter?

Stranger: Are you familiar with the Catholic 10 Commandments? number 5 = Do not kill.

You: thats pretty much standard morality

Stranger: Yeah.

You: btw, that applies to every1 not just born ppl

Stranger: Every human being.

You: yes

You: correct

You: even unborn humans

Stranger: YEah, but when is the unborn human a true human?

You: what else could it be, a puppy?

Stranger: No, I am asking WHEN is it a human?

You: if it exists its a human

Stranger: But WHEN does it actually exist?

You: oh i know this one!

You: "In sexual reproduction, male and female gametes fuse to create a genetically distinct organism of the parents' species."

You: science rules!

Stranger: Yeah, that's how it works.

You: ^.^

You: im a smart person!

Stranger: Yeah :)

You: so, yeah.

You: we all start as a single cell

Stranger: But its smaller than an ant and it won't feel anything. Would you care killing an ant?

You: personally, yes.

You: i always catch the bugs and let them outside

Stranger: Ok, so you are a 'Pro-life' person. Go you!

You: but theres a difference between an ant and a person

Stranger: Yeah.

Stranger: Are you a veagan?

You: totaly different species

You: no

You: y?

Stranger: Some people claim eating meat equals murder.

You: not unless its people meat lol

You: plus, my meat comes prekilled

Stranger: True. Mine as well.

You: yeah eating live animals wud b gross lol

Stranger: But some people are vegans because the animals suffer in their cages.

You: the suffering has already happened when itgets to me

You: but they arent people anyway

You: the babies are

Stranger: True.

Stranger: So, are you for or against capital punishment?

You: whats that

Stranger: Like death for murderers, for example?

You: lol nope

You: killing ppl because they killed ppl?

You: that makes no sense

Stranger: Yeah, barbaric.

You: plus what if u get the wrong guy

Stranger: However some US States think it works.

You: ah

Stranger: There is a book about a guy who was in Death Row for 10 years for a crime he didn't do.

You: that sux

You: but anyway babies are human i mean look @ the dna

Stranger: Yeah. But mothers still choose to kill them.

Stranger: Sometimes.

You: mothers choose 2 kill born kids too

Stranger: Yeah, they are punished for that though.

You: which makes sense

Stranger: yes

You: but we should really see y they did that

You: thats not normal

Stranger: Sometimes having a baby can affect your life radically.

You: yeah it can

Stranger: That's the main reason why mothers abort.

You: so we need to help moms

Stranger: Exactly.

You: i still think if moms knew what they were doing they wouldnt do it

Stranger: Yeah. Very true.

You: its not a "potential baby"

Stranger: But many people in this world want to go through where the fence is at its lowest.

You: huh?

Stranger: They want to choose the easiest option for themselves.

You: im sure the guilt would be terrible

Stranger: Because they are selfish or lazy.

You: maybe itd be easy @ 1st but it woul haunt them

You: would*

Stranger: I think people who don't want to have babies shouldn't be pregnant in the first place.

You: i know

You: but if they get pregnant its not their baby's fault

Stranger: Exactly.

You: so thay shouldnt b allowed to kill the baby

You: they

Stranger: What you are saying is indeed very smart.

You: its science class + common sense

You: thank u anyway

Stranger: Yeah. But many people on earth aren't very smart.

You: thats what we have laws 4

You: :]

Stranger: Laws are there to try to prevent crime by punishing those who do not obey them.

You: yeah

You: i mean some ppl used to think it was okay to kill black ppl

Stranger: Yeah, and Hitler thought it was fine to kill Jews.

You: if we could trust ppl 2 be smart and moral we wouldnt need any laws

Stranger: That would be a utopia.

You: whats a utopia

Stranger: an imaginary society where everything is perfect.

You: ok

You: that would be awsome

Stranger: Yeah, shame it is impossible.

You: never say never

Stranger: Lets just say 'highly unlikely' then.

You: ok

You: i wish i could vote so i could save the babies

You: =[

Stranger: Hopefully one day your vote will make it illegal.

You: yeah

You: or maybe someone will give the government a science book

You: or a dictionary even

Stranger: Oh no... politicians don't do science.

You: they should

Stranger: They totally should.

You: especially if they're deciding who we can kill

Stranger: Well, sometimes they base their views on things like morality and religion, which are just points of view, while science is generally accurate.

You: i know

You: but even morality says thow shalt not kill

Stranger: Yeah, and most religions too.

Stranger: Except islam, in which you are allowed to stone women to death.

You: i heard about that

Stranger: Its a bit 'strange'.

You: feminists shud focus on that and not on killing babys

Stranger: Yeah, but islamic countries and leaders are clever people. They say we have to respect everything their holy book says.

You: so its in a book that makes it ok?

Stranger: Otherwise we are dishonouring them and they can use it as an excuse to kill us.

Stranger: Yeah, for them, it is a book which is literally God's word.

You: thats weird

Stranger: And everything within the book (which is a bit unclear) is law.

You: odd

Stranger: Even I could write a book like that and claim its God's word.

You: i wish i could write a holy book

You: the world would b a better place

Stranger: Well... you can.

You: how old is that book anyway?

Stranger: Like 1500 years at least.

You: holy crud

Stranger: So, imagine if you had lived 1600 years ago and written a Holy book and people would have believed you... your book would still be used as a holy book perhaps.

You: wow

You: then again i would only know what ppl knew back then

You: they didnt know about sperm and egg and all that gud stuff

Stranger: Yeah... but most of the islamic countries are totally blinded by their blind beliefs.

You: thats so sad :(

Stranger: Yeah, but Islam is generally a quite kind religion, but it has some weird rules.

Stranger: And extremists change meanings.

You: if theres killing women its doesnt matter how kind it is

Stranger: Like 'hijad' is a fight against oneself inside ones mind.

Stranger: Not actual killing other people outside your mind.

...

You: u still think its ok?

Stranger: Abortion? Only in some cases maybe.

You: like when?

You: its not the baby's fault

Stranger: If the baby has a genetic illness that will make him/her be incapable of life.

You: so we can kill sick people?

Stranger: Only sick people that will die anyway.

You: we will all die anyway

Stranger: Yeah but I meant a kind of illness that would make the baby suffer for its whole life.

Stranger: Suffer actual unbearable pain.

You: so anyone in pain we can kill?

You: even without permission?

Stranger: Not anyone.

Stranger: Well, you can't ask a baby's permission.

You: so you cant kill them

You: you dont get to decide the baby should die

Stranger: and if medically we would know that its going to die 10 days after birth and be in unbearable pain for the time.

You: we shouldnt play god

Stranger: So we shouldn't have sex and expect God to give us our babies?

You: what?

You: i mean we dont get to decide who lives and who dies

Stranger: Yeah, but have you ever heard of euthanasia?

You: no

You: is it killing sick ppl?

Stranger: Its assisted suicide or 'mercy-killing'

Stranger: Basically killing a person who would otherwise suffer too much.

You: well assisted suicide is one thing

You: its fine if u wanna die just dont force any1 2 help u

You: but you cant just decide someone shouldnt live

Stranger: What if you are in a coma?

You: so?

You: if i was in a coma id want to be kept alive at all costs

Stranger: What if you were unable to move anything except your little finger and you were in excruciating pain?

Stranger: Would you like to live?

You: better than being dead

You: the point is you dont get to decide for me

Stranger: Of course not, but when a baby is going to die in birth certainly, why not abort it before it has to suffer?

You: we're all going to suffer in our lives

You: you can't push your wishes on what life is worth living on someone else

Stranger: That's true.

You: if you want to die, you can choose that

You: some people would rather live

Stranger: True. But I am talking about a baby that has a genetic incurable illness that will kill it in birth.

You: there;s a difference between dying of natural causes and being murdered

Stranger: The baby won't see the difference...

You: there is still a difference

Stranger: For the mother and us perhaps.

You: morally

Stranger: Yeah.

Stranger: But how would you feel if a doctor told you that your baby is going to die when its born. Would you like to carry it for 9 months knowing that?

You: yes.

Stranger: You would lose your job, because of it and you would then have no money...

You: and that makes it okay to kill someone?

Stranger: To kill someone who will die anyway...

You: we will all die anyway

Stranger: To kill some1 painlessly who would die painfully anyway.

You: some of us will die painfully

Stranger: You say all humans are equal?

Stranger: Its a nice idea, and I would hope it was true, but apparently it isn't :(

You: what do you mean?

Stranger: At least not in this world we live in.

Stranger: Well... first of all gender seems to matter, age matters, colour matters, lots of things seem to matter.

You: im confused

You: anyway

Stranger: Well, it is different to kill a baby that will die anyway, than kill a 50 year old woman.

You: it is not

You: we're all going to die, some sooner than others

Stranger: How can you predict the future? :D

You: how can you?

Stranger: I cannot.

You: oh, right back at you!

You: snap!

Stranger: I am saying all possibilities are open, hence you saying 'we're all going to die, sooner or later' is wrong.

You: then the possibility that teh baby will live is open

Stranger: Yeah.

You: so why kill them?

You: if you want to die in a situation, thats up to u

Stranger: Because we can predict it will die if it has a genetic illness that has always done that before?

You: you cant decide if others die

You: people have always died before

Stranger: I love you, dear. I hope more people were like you ;)

You: if we're going from what's happened before, we will all de

You: thank you

You: but you don;t get to decide that someone else should die just because thats what you would want

Stranger: I mean... you CAN do it, but its not right.

Stranger: and its punishable.

You: its not

You: even for babies

Stranger: Yeah.

You: so its wrong to abort them

Stranger: :)

Stranger: Very true.

You: so you shouldnt be for it

Stranger: Im only for it in the very rare cases, in which the baby would suffer.

Stranger: I just don't like babies that suffer.

You: but you don;t get to decide that someone else should die just because thats what you would want

Stranger: What if its a situation in which the baby will kill both the mother and itself if its not aborted?

Stranger: Safe the mother by killing the baby...

You: then the doctor does whatever they can do to save both

Stranger: Even if they must kill the baby in order to do so?

You: kill the baby to save both?

Stranger: No, kill the baby to save the mother?

You: they should just take the baby out and do everything they can to save the baby

Stranger: Yeah, but taking the baby out might mean killing it.

You: and they should try to save it

You: they shouldnt kill it directly but if it dies and they cant save it thats ok

Stranger: Oh, so trying to save the person you tried to kill justifies trying to kill it?

You: what?

You: not being born would kill the baby so they're trying to save it, not kill it

Stranger: Yeah, but they can't possible save some babies by taking them out.

Stranger: Some babies simply are too small and fragile, and might be underdeveloped.

Stranger: Like for example have no heart.

You: and they will kill the mother when so small?

You: they have a heart b4 theyre the size of a gummy bear

Stranger: If its a genetic blood illness (very rare), perhaps.

Stranger: I was just speculating on very rare cases in which abortion might be the best solution.

You: couldnt they put it in another woman?

Stranger: ... Well, in theory, perhaps, but its quite complex.

You: then they should try that

Stranger: What if they know that it has a 99% failure chance? and no other woman feels like opening their guts...?

You: then they can call me

Stranger: Anyhow, my example was just a speculation of a very rare case in which abortion might be the right choice.

Stranger: 99.0

You: 99% is better than the 100% chance of abortion

Stranger: 99.9% of abortions are wrong.

Stranger: I am trying to keep an open-mind :D

You: not sure it counts as abortion if u try and save the baby

You: in abortion, you try and kill the baby

You: if that's the case, its wrong

Stranger: Well, if you know the baby will die anyway.

You: no, its still wrong

Stranger: If the baby is somewhat like a tumour to the mother, lol.

You: what?

Stranger: Nevermind, I am speculating.

Stranger: These things will never happen.

You: babies are never tumors

Stranger: I know, but if the baby would have a huge tumour in itself...which would be deadly to the mother.

You: then you remove the tumor

Stranger: Yeah, but what if you kill the baby by removing it?

You: its just a tumor

Stranger: What if you HAVE to kill the baby to remove it.

You: you do all you can to save both

You: abortion is trying to kill

Stranger: What if there is nothing you can do to save the baby?

Stranger: Is doing 'nothing' doing something?

You: you try

Stranger: You try by doing nothing?

You: no, you try by removing the tumor and stitching the baby back up

Stranger: What if there is almost no baby left when the tumour is removed?

You: what do u mean?

Stranger: Like the tumour being 95% of the baby's body...

Stranger: Highly unlikely... lol

You: how is the tumor threatening the mom

Stranger: The tumour can grow too much and destroy the mothers vital organs?

Stranger: I don't know! I am not a doctor lol.

You: then you stop the tumor from growing

Stranger: I just watch Gray's Anatomy too much.

You: you could stop the tumor from growing too much

You: then you wait until the baby is strong enough to operate on

Stranger: Sometimes it might not be possible.

You: then you do the best you can

You: if the best isn't good enough, thats not your fault

Stranger: What if the mother has cancer and needs cancer treatment which can damage the baby?>

You: how bad is the cancer?

Stranger: If we wait till the baby is born it will be terminal and the woman will die.

Stranger: If we treat now the mother will survive, but the baby will die.

You: then just wait and birth the baby early

Stranger: What if its just too late that way?

You: huh?

Stranger: What if its risky that if they wait too long and try to deliver the baby too early, both the baby and the mother will die?

You: the goal should always be to save both patients

Stranger: Some1 has to choose, something... Who gets to do the choice?

You: the goal of abortion is to kill

Stranger: Yeah, in my case, its basically, abort now and have treatment, or don't abort and die.

Stranger: Or have the treatment now and kill the baby.

You: why will the treatment kill the baby?

Stranger: Radiation treatment isn't exactly very healthy for babies.

You: then you sheild the baby from the radiation

Stranger: All cancer treatments are bad for babies, unluckily.

Stranger: What if its bowel cancer? You can't shield the baby and treat bowel cancer.

You: why not?

Stranger: Because you can't shield the baby...

You: why cant you?

Stranger: Radiation goes through you.

Stranger: and if the cancer is in the bowel, its too near the baby.

Stranger: You don't exactly want to play hit and miss with that lol.

You: so you put a sheild around the baby like the vest u wear when u have an xray

Stranger: But how do you put the vest when its inside the mother?

You: uve never seen where they do the surgery in the womb?

Stranger: I have, but you can't do that. The mothers body will reject the vest.

You: what do u mean?

Stranger: Besides, it would need to be one huge vest.

You: babies arent that big

Stranger: Radiation goes through a lot of thick metal.

You: u just have to sheild enough so its not deadly

Stranger: You can't put a huge metal thingy inside a womb without risking death of the mother and baby.

Stranger: Besides it wouldn't matter... the radiation goes into the mothers bloodstream.

Stranger: and affects the baby no matter what.

You: im not a doctor but the goal should b to save as many lives as possible

You: the goal of abortion is to take a life

Stranger: So, if by taking a life you can save a life, shouldn't you do it?

You: its like conjoined twins, sometimes being conjoined threatens both their lives, so they separate even if its risky

You: the death of the baby would be a tragic sideaffect

Stranger: These are tough questions... I don't want to be a doctor lol.

You: yeah

You: i think saving one life is better than losing 2

Stranger: This is called utilitarism, check it out :)

You: no its not i know about it

You: utilitarianism says you can murder babies up to a year old

Stranger: Ok... yeah, lol... I don't seem to remember my philosophy lessons from a few years back.

Stranger: Does it really?

You: aparently lemme google it

Stranger: Anyhow, I think I need to eat something.

You: ok peter singer

You: he says babies dont have rights because they're dumb

You: pretty much

You: not smarter than animals and not selfaware so they can be killed

You: and that its okay to kill disabled babies (not just those that will die quickly) and try again

Stranger: lol

You: because healthy babies are happier

You: and overall happiness would be more by killing

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