Wednesday, February 16, 2011

Question Dodging

Stranger: what do you think about him then
You: hes a jerk
Stranger: why
You: he hates babies
Stranger: what?
You: hes a jerk
Stranger: how does he hate babies
You: he voted for infanticide
Stranger: abortion?
You: no infanticide
You: there was a bill to make it illegal to kill babies born alive after a failed abortion and he voted against it
Stranger: so it would be better that babies would be born with disformation?
You: huh?
You: Are you saying disabled ppl should be murdered?
You: wtf!
Stranger: aborted before they are boen
You: this bill was making it illegal to kill BORN babies
Stranger: do you have name of the bill
You: Born Alive Infants Protection Act
Stranger: why there are failed abortions
You: huh?
You: what do u mean?
You: hello?
Stranger: http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/PLAW-107publ207/html/PLAW-107publ207.htm
Stranger: that?
You: i guess
Stranger: "regardless of whether the expulsion or extraction occurs as a
result of natural or induced labor, cesarean section, or induced
abortion."
You: is that the federal one?
Stranger: I am not the american here but it says "107th Congress Public Law 207" so I would guess it is
You: he voted against the illinois one
You: why did you quote that section?
Stranger: you have failed abortion and the baby dont have any limbs
Stranger: doesnt sound very humane to me
You: so people without any limbs should be murdered?
Stranger: no you get your human rights when you are certain age
You: what age is that?
Stranger: lets say 6 months
You: after birth?
Stranger: after conception
You: what if the abortion was at 6 months and the baby had no limbs?
Stranger: err you dont abort after 6 months
You: says who?
You: it happens, just not much
Stranger: havent thought that much about exactly when fetus should get human rights
You: so a healthy baby born at 5 months has no rights?
You: according to mr. Stranger: I think we should be less ageist
Stranger: I think it is good that there is possibility for abortion
Stranger: as if parents dont have means to raise child
You: what if they do at first but dont l8r?
Stranger: it would we better than child wont have to suffer from inability of parents
You: if a family goes broke can they kill their toddler?
You: to save her from suffering?
Stranger: no
You: why not?
You: she'll suffer from their inability
You: why isn't it better for her to die?
You: she's the same girl she was in the womb, just older
You: if we're not gonna be ageist, it's good to kill her too
Stranger: I didnt mean we should treat everyone completely the same way irregardless of age but that we shouldnt stereotype individuals
Stranger: based on their age
You: i think killing someone is a bit worse than stereotyping htem
You: them
Stranger: ?
You: so is it only racist to stereotype blacks, but not to deny them equal rights?
Stranger: so you think that you get your human rights nanosecond after conception
You: i think u get them as soon as u exist
Stranger: then sperm should have rights
Stranger: and masturbation would be murder
You: what?
You: what r u talking about?
Stranger: there is continuity from sperm to baby
You: no, when the sperm and egg meet a new organism is formed
You: jesus christ this is 7th grade biology!
Stranger: I said " so you think that you get your human rights nanosecond after conception "
Stranger: then why didnt you say yes then
You: well not after
You: somewhere in conception
Stranger: what is the difference
You: conception takes like 12-24 hours to finish
You: its a process not an moment
You: the sperm goes into the egg then the genes have to mix
You: i dont think it makes sense to say someone's too young for human rights
You: you get human rights just 4 being human
Stranger: http://docinthemachine.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/embryo-brochure.jpg
Stranger: is what we are talking about now
You: whats your point?
Stranger: does 4 cells constitute a human
You: those do
You: and that looks more like 7
Stranger: cant be
Stranger: odd number
You: maybe 8
You: why does being an odd number matter?
You: yeah i see 8
Stranger: so can you murder baby you arent aware that exists
You: no u cant
You: murder needs intent
You: u cant murder an adult u dont know exists either
Stranger: bad translation
Stranger: manslaughter
You: hmm
You: ianal
Stranger: what?
You: i am not a lawyer
You: idk how manslaughter law works
You: or what's so funny about it
Stranger: ?
You: manslaughter = man's laughter
You: its a pun
Stranger: sexists!
You: what?
Stranger: nothing
Stranger: what do you think about gay marriage
You: i say the govt should stay out of marriage
Stranger: I didnt ask that
You: im cool with it
Stranger: who do you opposite abortion
Stranger: *why
You: cause its wrong
Stranger: why is it wrong
You: i thought we'd moved to marriage
Stranger: it was too boring
You: oh ok
You: its wrong because it kills people
Stranger: do you have problem with killing mosquitos
You: mosquitos arent people
Stranger: why people are special
Stranger: should gorilla that can communicate using sign language have same rights as human
You: ?
Stranger: "Koko has a vocabulary of over 1000 signs (American Sign Language) most of which she learned during the first few years of the project. However, she continues to learn (and occasionally invent) new signs, to improve her ability to communicate with her caregivers"
Stranger: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U64k_fA2Rcc
You: oh
You: So what?
Stranger: there is nothing special about human
You: so you're saying using sign language gives your rights?
Stranger: I am not saying I am asking
You: no it doesnt
Stranger: even if it has better understanding of world than a child
You: so?
Stranger: human child
You: since when does understanding give rights?
Stranger: understanding is what supposedly makes humans special
Stranger: they dont have same rights because arent same species?
You: so you're saying a gorilla has rights but a human newborn doesnt?
Stranger: I didnt say that
You: so why bring up understanding?
Stranger: mosquitos arent people
Stranger: "mosquitos arent people"
You: do you think they are?
Stranger: so we can kill anyone who isnt a homo sapiens sapiens
You: if you're not human are you "someone"?
Stranger: only humans have personhood and identity?
You: what do YOU think gives rights?
Stranger: capabilities
You: what capabilities?
You: and since when are rights based on what you can do?
Stranger: 6 year old doesnt get to vote
Stranger: should we let 6 year olds vote
You: yes we should
Stranger: why
You: why not?
Stranger: "why not?" doesnt answer to question "why"
You: it does too
Stranger: I was asking your opinion not asking you to ask my opinion
You: because they're affected by govt too
Stranger: gorillas are affected by govt too
Stranger: they never get to vote
You: they're citizens
Stranger: should 6 year old bare same responsibilities as 18 year old
You: depends on the 6 year old
You: in your opinion what do i have to do to earn the right to not be murdered?
Stranger: responsibilities depend but voting doesnt?
Stranger: you get influence without responsibilities?
You: i wouldnt trust a test to say who can vote
Stranger: there was a test for blacks in america
Stranger: that way south kept them from not voting
You: yes, and look how that turned out
Stranger: that is why they are certain age when people are generally expected to be
Stranger: that there cant be discrimination on test
You: ive seen some morons that still get to vote
Stranger: yes
Stranger: but again if you make test
Stranger: you are giving someone power to decide whether s/he can vote
You: thats my point
Stranger: why should you get citizenship through birth
Stranger: isnt that discrimination
Stranger: global caste system
You: huh?
Stranger: your citizenship restricts your mobility
Stranger: in same way as castes used to
You: in your opinion what do i have to do to earn the right to not be murdered?
Stranger: born
You: you said at 6 months after conception
You: which is it?
Stranger: I dont see that much difference
You: um, birth is 9 months
Stranger: yes?
You: there's a 3 month difference
Stranger: which isnt much
Stranger: you would expect
Stranger: that by the time mother has become aware
Stranger: and made her decision
You: do you get your rights at 6 months or 9 months?
Stranger: I said it doesnt make much difference
Stranger: is it 6 7 8 or 9
You: which is it? 3 months is a quarter of a year
Stranger: as it doesnt make much difference whether voting age is 17 18 19
You: is it okay to have an abortion at 7 months?
Stranger: depends on legistation
You: morally
You: its legal in all 9 months
Stranger: not in every country
You: in some countries its illegal in all 9 months
Stranger: true
You: im asking your opinion, not the law's
Stranger: I already said I dont see much difference where you but the time when you get your human rights
Stranger: as long as there is enough time that parents get to consider
Stranger: if you have missed two ovaries you rings should start rining
Stranger: ringing
You: theres a show called I didnt know i was pregnant
Stranger: yes
You: what do you mean ringing?
Stranger: I said should
You: what do yo mean about ringing ovaries/
You: how can ovaries ring?
Stranger: you have missed two periods
Stranger: you should start suspecting something
Stranger: of course it is possible because of malnutrion also
You: or cysts
You: theres a show called I didnt know i was pregnant where they dont know until they give birth
Stranger: I dont know about that
You: its on TLC
Stranger: I dont live in america and I watch tv less than 5 minutes per week on average
You: well its there
You: is it 6 or 9?
Stranger: already told you
You: no you didnt
Stranger: I said it doesnt make much difference
Stranger: couple of times
You: and i told u it does
Stranger: you asked my opinion
You: and you didnt tell me it
Stranger: all ready told you many times
You: is it moral to kill a 7 month baby?
Stranger: and I said dont see much difference where you but the time when you get human rights
You: the difference is you can or cannot kill the baby
Stranger: yes
You: so which is it?
Stranger: .......................
Stranger: .........................
Stranger: ....................
Stranger: ........................
Stranger: ..........................
Stranger: ..................
Stranger: ........................
Stranger: how many times do i have to answer
You: only once
Stranger: I did 5 times
You: you havent yet
You: you keep dodging the question
Stranger: I havent dodged
Stranger: I said it doesnt make difference to me
Stranger: is it 6
Stranger: 7
Stranger: 8
Stranger: or 9
You: is it moral to kill a 7-month baby, yes or no?
Stranger: you pick a number from 6 to 9
Stranger: you dont get to abort after
You: YES OR NO?
Stranger: what part you dont understand
You: the part where you don't answer me
You: you can say you dont know
Stranger: already answered many times
Stranger: I dont see difference which number you pick
You: i told you difference
You: the difference is life or death for the baby
Stranger: zzzzzzzzzzz
You: okay whatever what's so special about birth that it means you can't kill the baby?
Stranger: what?
You: you said the baby gets rights at birth
You: why?
Stranger: or at 6 or 7 or 8 or 9
You: so at birth the child already has rights
Stranger: if its less than 9 then yes
You: why can a 5-month baby be killed but not a 10-month child?
Stranger: so that every child is wanted
You: can an unwanted toddler be killed?
Stranger: or maxium number of childs are wanted
You: can an unwanted toddler be killed?
Stranger: i have already told you have i think
Stranger: there is a period after conception
Stranger: when parents get to judge whether they have means to raise child
Stranger: if they come to conclusion that they dont
Stranger: they have abortion
Stranger: after period has expired
Stranger: they dont get to abort
You: what's so special about that period?
Stranger: it is intended to make maximum number of babies wanted
You: if they find out late or the situation changes, why can't they abort at 9 months?
Stranger: and make wellbeing of children better
You: if they change their mind, why can't they kill an unwanted newborn?
Stranger: because child has to get his human rights sometime
You: why doesn't the child have human rights at 5 months?
Stranger: so that maximum number of children are wanted
Stranger: and raised by parents that have the means to do it
You: why does the child have human rights at 10 months?
Stranger: because child has to get his human rights sometime
You: why can't that time be at puberty?
Stranger: that child is lawless until puberty?
You: why not?
You: why can't the time be at age 2?
You: why can't the age be 4 months?
Stranger: because its outside body
You: so a baby born at 5 months can't be killed?
You: because its outside the body
You: even though its before 6 months
Stranger: here its legal up to 6 months because of fetal defects , socioeconomic factors and rape
Stranger: up to 9 months to protect mothers life , physical health and mental health
You: does a 5 month born baby have rights?
You: a baby born 4 months early
You: does it have human rights?
Stranger: i would need better medical knowledge
Stranger: on the changes of survival
Stranger: probability of defections
You: it's healthy
Stranger: I would still need
Stranger: you dont make laws based on whether individual is healthy
You: i thought you said you get human rights at birth
Stranger: never said that
You: You: in your opinion what do i have to do to earn the right to not be murdered?
Stranger: born
You: if you dont make laws based on whether individual is healthy, why does it matter if they will have defects?
Stranger: Stranger: you said at 6 months after conception
Stranger: which is it?
You: I dont see that much difference
You: so its 6 months
Stranger: netherlands have exactly 6 months in every case if I am reading correctly
Stranger: cuba its 3 months
You: USA has until birth, and ireland has 0 months
Stranger: ireland has de facto until birth
Stranger: you can always travel across bond to uk
You: dominican republic has 0
You: chile
You: nicaragua
You: el salvador
You: several us states before 1973
Stranger: yes?
Stranger: there is a pattern
Stranger: many of those are catholic
You: so?
Stranger: their laws are based on laws supposedly giving by sky daddy
You: whats your point?
Stranger: just a comment
You: so why can't people get human rights after birth, or before 6 months?
Stranger: you are asking same questions again and again
Stranger: and would only give same answers again and again
You: i havent asked this one
You: iirc
Stranger: what
You: why 6-9 months and not 2 months or 2 years?
Stranger: 2 months isnt enough
You: isnt enough for what?
Stranger: to know with high probability that you are pregnant and make informed decision based on that
Stranger: and isnt enough to see if child is mentally deficit
You: if you don't find out the child is disabled until she's three years old, why can't you kill her?
Stranger: I already told you
Stranger: child has to get its human rights at some point
You: why can't she get human rights at four?
Stranger: somewhere between 6 and 9 is reasonable in my opinion
Stranger: months
You: why can't she get human rights at four years?
You: why can't she get human rights at 12 months?
Stranger: because there has been enough time to make decisision in many cases
You: what if there wasn't?
You: what if they only just found out?
Stranger: you make laws for all
Stranger: you make laws for general cases
You: so in your view human rights aren't real, but just legal fictions?
Stranger: if you mean somehow divine
Stranger: then no
You: Are they inherent, or do we just have them if someone else says we have them?
Stranger: human rights are construct of human mind
You: if someone decided you didn't have rights, would you lose yours?
Stranger: do you know what is utilitarianism
Stranger: and it is very closely related to what we are talking
Stranger: not trying to dodge
Stranger: yes?
Stranger: no?
You: yes i do and i dont like it
You: this one guy said babies arent people until a year after birth
Stranger: that is the way I approach it
Stranger: what one guy
You: peter singer
Stranger: you know background to that
You: huh?
Stranger: is lying always wrong
You: no
Stranger: is killing always wrong
You: no
You: if we get rights at birth, Obama's vote was wrong
Stranger: I dont know background to that
You: to what?
Stranger: do you have the full illinois law
You: lemme look
You: why can't we give parents a longer time than 9 months to decide if they can handle a baby?
You: what would be wrong with making the age 12 or 18 months instead of 6 or 9/
You: ?
Stranger: i dont work in your absolutist world
You: should it be legal to kill a newborn if you decide you can't care for her/
Stranger: I don't see problems with the current system
You: it lets babies be killed!
Stranger: embryos
You: it doesnt minimize unwanted children
Stranger: yes it does
You: no it doesnt
You: if a born child is unwanted, they cant be killed
You: therefore it doesnt
You: it reduces, but it does not minimize
Stranger: synonyms
You: no they're not
You: minimize means to bring to a minimum
You: the minimum is the smallest possible amount
You: they're no more synonyms than less and least are synonyms
Stranger: Definition of MINIMIZE "to reduce"
Stranger: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/minimize
You: min·i·mize: Reduce (something, esp. something unwanted or unpleasant) to the smallest possible amount or degree
You: http://www.google.com/dictionary?source=dict-chrome-ex&sl=en&tl=en&q=minimize
Stranger: yes words have many meanings english is peace of shit
Stranger: piece
You: full definition you quoted: : to reduce or keep to a minimum
Stranger: OR
You: yes
Stranger: or means either is valid
You: to reduce or keep, to a minimum
Stranger: or both
Stranger: there is no comma
You: means either "reduce to a minimum" or "keep to a minimum" is valid
Stranger: THERE IS NO COMMA
Stranger: 1
: to reduce or keep to a minimum
Stranger: without comma
You: same deal without the comma
Stranger: you are pulling that comma from your ass
Stranger: liar
You: min·i·mize (mn-mz)
tr.v. min·i·mized, min·i·miz·ing, min·i·miz·es
1.
a. To reduce to the smallest possible amount, extent, size, or degree.
You: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/minimize
Stranger: yes???
You: min·i·mize
   /ˈmɪnəˌmaɪz/ Show Spelled[min-uh-mahyz] Show IPA
–verb (used with object), -mized, -miz·ing.
1.
to reduce to the smallest possible amount or degree.
You: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/minimize
Stranger: : to reduce or keep to a minimum
Stranger: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/minimize
Stranger: english is a language without central authority
You: even your definition agrees with me!
Stranger: to reduce or keep to a minimum
Stranger: without comma
You: i know
Stranger: or means
You: the comma was unnecessary
Stranger: either or both of them may be true
You: correct
Stranger: so to reduce
You: either "reduce to a minimum" or "keep to a minimum" is valid
Stranger: is correct usage
Stranger: zzzzzzz
Stranger: to reduce or keep to a minimum
Stranger: why the fuck are you arguing about this
You: if you say "i chewed and swallowed my food", both verbs are to the end of the sentence
Stranger: http://mathworld.wolfram.com/OR.html
Stranger: there is you how or works
You: "you can lick or bite a tootsie pop"
You: "you can walk or run to the store"
Stranger: english is ambigious language
You: since the definition you cite is ambiguous, we should look to other dictionaries for clearer definitions
Stranger: *ambiguous
Stranger: whole language is ambigious
Stranger: it has no central authority
You: http://education.yahoo.com/reference/dictionary/entry/minimize
Stranger: if you want ass to mean table
You: min·i·mize audio (mn-mz) KEY

TRANSITIVE VERB:
min·i··mized, min·i··miz·ing, min·i··miz·es

1.
1. To reduce to the smallest possible amount, extent, size, or degree.
Stranger: you only need to gather following for it
You: to reduce something harmful or unpleasant to the smallest amount or degree

We must minimize the damage to innocent civilians.

http://www.macmillandictionary.com/dictionary/american/minimize
Stranger: "to reduce something harmful "
You: –verb-transitive
# To reduce to the smallest possible amount, extent, size, or degree.

http://www.wordnik.com/words/Minimize
You: "to the smallest amount or degree"
Stranger: and?
You: minimize verb
(UK usually minimise) Click to hear the UK pronunciation of this wordClick to hear the US pronunciation of this word/ˈmɪn.ɪ.maɪz/ v [T]
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Definition

to reduce something to the least possible level or amount
We must minimize the risk of infection.
Environmentalists are doing everything within their power to minimize the impact of the oil spill.
Opposite: maximize

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/minimize
Stranger: english is piece of shit
Stranger: I already know it
You: Verb

to minimize (third-person singular simple present minimizes, present participle minimizing, simple past and past participle minimized)

1. (transitive) To make (something) as small or as insignificant as possible.

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/minimize

i think ive made my point
Stranger: argumentum ad potentiam
You: but lets go with reduce
Stranger: argumentum ad populum
Stranger: argumentum ad potentiam
Stranger: argumentum ad populum
Stranger: argumentum ad populum
Stranger: argumentum ad populum
Stranger: argumentum ad populum
Stranger: argumentum ad populum
Stranger: argumentum ad populum
You: you did say that all it needs is a big enough following
Stranger: argumentum ad populum
Stranger: yes
You: thats a pretty big following
Stranger: but no universal
Stranger: therefore its ambiguous
You: im pretty sure you're the only one who disagrees
Stranger: what?
You: whatever. let's go with reduce.
Stranger: fuck off
You: getting human rights would also reduce unwanted children
You: rights at 4 months*
Stranger: countries with highest child well being
Stranger: are all abortion countries
You: so we should kill unhappy children?
Stranger: zzzzzzzzzzz
Stranger: strawman much
You: we could up those numbers even further if we allowed infanticide
Stranger: would you stop strawmans
You: im not
Stranger: would you stop repeating everything fucking hundred times
You: this is your logic
Stranger: Stranger: so we should kill unhappy children?
Stranger: is a strawman
Stranger: i didnt say that any point
You: by your logic, you're better off dead than sad.
Stranger: either you stop misrepreseting
Stranger: or fuck off
Stranger: your way of constructing strawmans are reapeating everything
Stranger: is fucking annoying
You: ok so tell me why it's okay to kill a 5-month-old but not a 5-year-old
Your conversational partner has disconnected.
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