Thursday, May 27, 2010

then go ahead, shoot it

You're now chatting with a random stranger. Say hi!
Stranger: HI
You: Hey there, Stranger.
You: How do you feel about abortion?
Stranger: It really brings out the kid in you
You: That was a horrible pun.
Stranger: :(
You: Seriously, though.
Stranger: I am fort it
Stranger: for it*
You: Why?
Stranger: Because I don't want fucked up kids walking around my neighbourhood
Stranger: HURR DURR I LIKE CAT *eats cat*
You: Then why stop at birth?
You: Why not shoot the little fuckers?
Stranger: Hell yeah
Stranger: shot it
Stranger: shoot it*
Stranger: And they get awards and privileges
Stranger: Cripple burns down school, It's alright your special - Regular Person burns down school, Jail
Stranger: And what do you think of abortion?
You: It's bad.
Stranger: And how so?
Stranger: ???
You: It's as bad as killing any person.
Stranger: But it isn't really a person
Stranger: it's like...a 1/4 person
You: How so?
You: It's the same person as a toddler, just younger.
Stranger: It's a fetus
You: Yes, and used to be an embryo and will be a toddler.
You: A fetus is a fetus and a toddler is a toddler; both are just different age ranges.
Stranger: Some teens also get pregnant very young
Stranger: so it can lead to 1 problem going away
Stranger: You don't want to be taking care of a kid while you are in high school
You: So someone should be killed for a mistake someone else made before they even existed?
Stranger: Yes
Stranger: For the sake of the pregnant girl
Stranger: You are smart, fellow stranger, I applaud you
You: So it's okay to kill an innocent person to make someone else's life easier?
Stranger: This "innocent person" was a mistake
Stranger: and is unwanted
You: So anyone who isn't wanted can be killed?
Stranger: In this case yes
Stranger: In other cases no
You: Why is this case special?
Stranger: Because to make an unwanted mistake dissapear to make life easier
You: If a dad realizes his daughter was a mistake, can he shoot her?
Stranger: He would go to jail, because it is a crime
Stranger: It's too late
You: Why is it too late?
You: Maybe he just found out about his daughter.
Stranger: Well if he would have realized this before she was born
You: Maybe her mother just found him and started asking for child support.
Stranger: Then get her child support
Stranger: but if nothing else can happen
Stranger: then it's an abortiobn
Stranger: abortion
You: But he can't get rid of an unwanted mistake to make life easier?
Stranger: He can
Stranger: Let's make a scenario and discuss it, A male and a female find out that the girl is pregnant at age 18, the male - know he can't take care of it - leaves his wife, in this situation it may be ok to get an abortion
Stranger: leaves his girlfriend*
Stranger: not wife
You: Okay.
You: And?
Stranger: And, abortion is okay in this situation
You: No, it is not.
You: What exactly did the baby do to deserve death?
Stranger: Nothing
Stranger: what did it to do deserve life?
You: What did a toddler do to deserve life?
Stranger: He wasn't a mistake, his parents liked him/her
You: What if the toddler was a mistake?
You: And his parents hate him?
Stranger: Then abortion
You: Why can't you kill him as a toddler?
Stranger: Because you would go to jail
Stranger: Because you took the life of something, in abortion you don't exactly take the life, you just make sure it doesnt continue to develop
You: Shooting him would stop the toddler from continuing to develop.
Stranger: but the toddler has a life
Stranger: the fetus doesn't exactly have a life
Stranger: it's still forming
You: The toddler is still forming too.
You: Not all his systems will be up and running until puberty.
Stranger: but it has a life
You: And the fetus doesn't?
You: Is the fetus dead?
Stranger: It's not living
Stranger: What is the purpose of this questioning?
You: If the fetus isn't living what's the umbilical cord for?
You: Dead things don't need food, water, and oxygen.
You: Dead cells don't divide either.
Stranger: =/
Stranger: Abortions are to make lives easier, the baby is unwanted and can't be taken care of or the parents don't want to take care of it
You: So what if killing an unwanted toddler makes your life easier?
Stranger: Well if it survives through birth, then it is most likely wanted
Stranger: Yes kiling an unwanted toddler can be easier
Stranger: killing*
You: Should parents be allowed to kill unwanted newborns?
Stranger: They can give it away
Stranger: Or abort it
You: Should parents be allowed to kill unwanted newborns if they can't care for them and killing them would make their lives easier?
Stranger: Yes
You: Should parents be allowed to kill unwanted toddlers if they can't care for them and killing them would make their lives easier?
Stranger: Yes
You: Should parents be allowed to kill unwanted kindergarteners if they can't care for them and killing them would make their lives easier?
Stranger: If it's there's?
Stranger: We are talking about the fetus, not the newborns or toddlers?
You: Should parents be allowed to kill their unwanted kindergarteners if they can't care for them and killing them would make their lives easier?
Stranger: No
You: How come?
Stranger: Because you can go to jail for it
Stranger: You can do it, you will just pay the consequences
You: Should it be legal?
Stranger: No
Stranger: That would promote murder
You: Why not?
You: Why can't the unwanted kindergartener be killed but the unwanted newborn can?
Stranger: The unwanted newborn can't
Stranger: Again, it's murder
You: What's the difference?
Stranger: Between
You: Between the newborn baby and the unborn baby.
Stranger: Unborn baby is unwanted and was a mistake, if it survived through that and is now a newborn that it is obviously wanted
You: I'm taking about unwanted newborns.
Stranger: Unborn baby = Abortion, Newborn,toddler, etc. = Give away
You: Not everyone finds out they're pregnant by the time they're giving birth.
Stranger: then give it away
You: Adoption takes a while.
Stranger: Well wait it out
You: Why can't the pregnant lady just wait it out and give up the baby?
Stranger: Maybe because she doesn't want pain when giving birth
Stranger: or maybe she wants to take flights but can't
You: There's a lot of trouble raising an infant too.
You: Why suffer that and wait for adoption when a bullet would solve their problem?
Stranger: Because then you can go to jail
You: If abortion was illegal, would that make it wrong?
Stranger: Make what wrong?
You: Abortion.
Stranger: I guess so,yeah
Stranger: but different countries have different laws
You: If it was legal to kill kindergarteners, would that make killing kindergarteners right?
Stranger: Not everything legal is right
Stranger: Marijuana can be legal but is still wrong
You: Okay, but everything illegal is wrong?
Stranger: Well, name something
You: You said that if abortion was illegal, it would become wrong.
Stranger: becuase you would have to face the consequence of going to jail
You: But would that make it WRONG?
Stranger: Yes
You: Should it be illegal to kill kindergarteners?
Stranger: It is illegal...
You: SHOULD it be?
Stranger: If it isn't yes, if it is keep it that way
You: Okay, should it be illegal to kill newborns?
Stranger: same answer
You: Okay, should it be illegal to kill unborn babies?
Stranger: No, if the parents know they will have a big difficulty raising it,they can get rid of it
Stranger: And, stem cells help people
You: But they can't kill a newborn baby if they know they will have a big difficulty raising it?
Stranger: Too late
You: Why?
Stranger: because it is already born into the world
You: So?
You: It's not like the fetus wasn't in the world before birth.
Stranger: the newborn is living his life
Stranger: it isn't born into the world
You: The unborn baby is living his life too.
Stranger: But when you grow up, on your birthday you don't say I'm 16 and 9 months old
You: I do.
Stranger: Your birthday isn't when your parents had sex, it's when you were born
You: I measure my age from my estimated date of conception.
You: Whenever I use my natal age, I specify it as such.
Stranger: Well, most people don't
You: But that's a cultural phenomenon that's got nothing to do with the moral worth of the unborn child.
Stranger: =/
You: Not all cultures measure age from birth.
Stranger: But most do
You: So?
You: You seriously think cultures have never been wrong?
You: What about when we embraced slavery?
You: Or racism in general?
You: Or sexism?
Stranger: Slavery gets shit done
Stranger: But would you say that abortion would be right for one of your friends who is 16 years old, still in school, failing her classes and already has a kid?
You: No.
Stranger: What would you recommend?
You: I'd recommend she find a local pregnancy resource center, and I'd do what I could to help her with adoption.
Stranger: What if she doesnt want to carry a baby for 9 months
Stranger: then end up leaving it
You: Then I'd suggest induced labor once viability is reached.
You: What if parents of an infant don't want to take care of the baby while adoption is sorted out?
Stranger: If adoption is sorted out then get rid of it
You: Yes, but adoption takes time,
You: In the meantime, they may not want to take care of the baby and then give her up.
Stranger: in what way, give her up?
You: For adoption.
Stranger: well then they'll have to wait it out
You: But what if they don't want to wait it out?
Stranger: Then what choices do they have?
You: They could shoot the kid.
Stranger: THey can't
You: Why not?
Stranger: Because they would get improsined
You: Why should they be imprisoned if they were just getting rid of a mistake?
Stranger: No
You: What if they don't want to feed and clothe a baby until adoption is finalized
You: then end up leaving it
Stranger: Then that's there choice
You: Should they be allowed to shoot the baby?
Stranger: No
You: Why not?
Stranger: Because it's murder
You: The baby is a mistake that they just want to get rid of.
You: Adoption would take time and require more effort.
Stranger: I smell bacon
Stranger: well as soon as it's born
Stranger: they can't kill it
You: Why not?
Stranger: It is illegal, I don't make laws
You: I didn't ask if it was allowed; I asked if it SHOULD be allowed.
Stranger: It should be allowed, abortion is allowed, murder isn't
You: Now, I've got nothing against vaginas, but passing through one doesn't change who you are.
Stranger: But all I know is once you pass through it, you can't be aborted, unless you are being aborted
You: Why is it okay to kill the baby on one side of the birth canal but not on the other?
Stranger: I'm not sure
You: It's the same baby.
You: It just moved.
Stranger: Well, I don't know stranger
You: If you're going to use it to justify killing people, you should know.
Stranger: I'm just for it
You: Okay imagine this.
You: Do you hunt?
Stranger: No
Stranger: But go on
You: Are you okay with hunting?
Stranger: Yeah
You: Okay.
You: Imagine this.
You: A hunter is out hunting with a few of his buddies and they decide to spread out.
You: One hunter sees a bush rustling, but doesn't know if it's a deer or a person.
You: Should he shoot?
Stranger: No
Stranger: Why risk losing a friend just for hunting?
You: Okay.
You: Imagine this, then.
You: Would you demolish a building if you didn't know if there was anyone inside?
Stranger: No
You: Would you say either of these actions (shooting the bush or demolishing the building) should be allowed?
Stranger: Unless proper information be given, then it shouldn't be allowed
You: Well.
You: You are unable to explain why changing location makes it wrong to kill the same baby.
You: Should we not air on the side of caution as with the hunter and demolition technician?
Stranger: I don't know why, neither do you
Stranger: I'm for it though
Stranger: Normally as the demoltion tech, you would be given info that all is clear
You: Yes, but before you get that info you can't blow it up.
Stranger: Yeah
Stranger: And before you get info whether it is a deer or person, you shouldn't shoot
You: But you can abort when you don't know if it's a person or not?
Stranger: It's a person
Stranger: It just...
You: Then why can it be killed?
Stranger: Because it is the mothers choice
Stranger: it is inside her
You: Why isn't it the mother's choice for the born baby?
Stranger: if a mother says "I need a heart transplant" she can do it, but if you give a random person a heart transplant without them even asking, you can't do it
Stranger: Because it isn't inside her anymore
You: She never asked the baby if it wanted to die.
Stranger: The mother can do anything to the baby when it inside her
Stranger: she can smoke,drink and abort
You: So she can murder anyone who's inside her?
Stranger: It is her "property" i guess you can put it, so yes
You: So all you need to do to own someone is to put them in your body?
Stranger: Not that way
Stranger: But it is in her ownership
Stranger: you can have a dog
Stranger: and have it put down
Stranger: because it is of your ownership
You: The fetus never asked to be in her body; its location and dependency are a result of actions beyond its control.
Stranger: The dog never asked to be bought
Stranger: Well it's too bad for it
Stranger: the sperm cell moved into the vagina
Stranger: which was unwanted
You: So anyone can kill anyone else that's inside them?
Stranger: yes
Stranger: Because it's their body
You: So if I put you in my body, I could kill you?
Stranger: How would you do that?
Stranger: You don't take what I say to the extreme
Stranger: you keep it simple
You: It doesn't matter how I do it.
You: Would it be okay?
Stranger: To abort yes, to put something in your body JUST to kill ity
Stranger: no
Stranger: it*
You: Why not?
You: You say it's fine to kill someone in your body even if you put them there in the first place.
You: Someone doesn't magically become property because of where they are.
Stranger: The mother has rights to do anything she wants to herself
You: But not to someone else.
Stranger: The government doesn't care about what's inside the mother therefore they let her do what she wants
You: The government didn't always care about women.
Stranger: Are you male or female?
You: It use to not technically be considered "rape" if done by her husband.
You: I'm female.
You: But that really doesn't matter.
Stranger: Well let's just say a girl was raped, and now is pregnant
You: Let's say I was male. I'm making the same argument.
Stranger: would you say an abortion would be necessary?
You: No, I would not. I know plenty of women who were concieved in rape.
Stranger: The child, being born, would have to live with the guilt of having his dad be a criminal and never seeing him. Being a mistake
You: They aren't subhuman because of a crime committed before they existed.
Stranger: Made from the pain of the mothe
Stranger: mother*
Stranger: I'm not saying they are subhuman
Stranger: but can you imagine living with that in your head?
You: I don't have to; I have friends who do.
Stranger: Your friends were born from rape?
You: Not all of my friends, of course.
Stranger: Yeah I know that
Stranger: but one was?
You: A couple.
You: Juda was concieved when her mother was gangraped by 8 men.
Stranger: O.O
You: She donsn't feel guilty for what happened before she existed.
Stranger: Guilty was the wrong word to use
Stranger: I just mean't living with your dad being a criminal, not seeing him, knowing your a mistake
You: Irene was concieved of rape and later aborted a rape baby, which she really regrets.
Stranger: You were not meant to be, what you are now
You: She's glad she's alive.
You: You're sure quick to make judgements about who is worthy of not being killed.
Stranger: You are just saying it because of your friends
Stranger: What did other Strangers say to your question, or am I your first?
You: What do you mean?
Stranger: Did you ask this question to other people?
Stranger: on omegle
You: Yeah, a few.
Stranger: And what did they say?
You: Some were for, some against.
You: Some were just trolls.
Stranger: Some were trolls, lol, I was expecting all trolls
You: LOL
Stranger: And, I'm just curious, why are you asking this?
You: Some were real flaky and couldn't answer my questions.
Stranger: lol
You: I'm asking because Omegle deserves more intelligent conversations.
Stranger: Instead of "m or f, ur an f? wana cyber?!?!?"
You: Exactly.
You: But being conceived of rape in no way makes you unworthy of life.
Stranger: I know
Stranger: But if the mother doesn't want her child growing up with these thoughts
Stranger: or maybe she wasn't ready to raise a child
You: So a baby can be killed if she MAY grow up with some unhappy thoughts?
Stranger: In any situation, would you recommend an abortion to anyone?
Stranger: Well maybe the mother doesn't want her/him to suffer, or just because she can't support a child
Stranger: not because being a rape baby makes you subhuman and unworthy of life
You: That assumes they'll suffer.
You: And everyone's gonna suffer in their life. We don't have a crystal ball to tell how much.
Stranger: In any situation would you recommend an abortion?
You: It depends on how you define abortion.
You: If in trying to save one's life, the other dies, that is tragic but acceptable.
Stranger: What do you mean?
Stranger: I mean killing the baby
You: If the baby dies in an attempt to save the mother's life, that is okay.
Stranger: ok
You: All effort should go towards saving both lives.
Stranger: Would you recommend an abortion if you think parents aren't suitable for taking on a child?
Stranger: Say the mother smokes and drinks while the father does drugs and beats his wife, always cheating on her
You: No more than I would recommend infanticide for the same couple.
You: If they can't kill their newborn baby for reason X, they cannot kill their unborn baby for reason X.
Stranger: Okay
You: I find it absurd to class a person as property.
Stranger: =/
You: And, frankly, I find it offensive.
Stranger: So you find what I say offensive?
You: Yes.
Stranger: :(
Stranger: But people have been property for hundreds of years
Stranger: and some can still be
You: So slavery was okay?
Stranger: back then
Stranger: it was
You: What?
Stranger: A long time ago, slavery was okay
You: It's not okay any more?
Stranger: In some places it could be
You: So all that needs to happen for abortion to not be okay is for people to agree that it's not okay?
Stranger: I guess so
Stranger: People fought against slavery
You: So was the Holocaust okay?
Stranger: whether it was black people or white people
You: People are fighting against abortion.
Stranger: so htye abolished it in most countries
Stranger: Yes
Stranger: I know
Stranger: But some people don't care
Stranger: Because it doesn't affect them in any way
You: Ah.
You: Wait.
You: The Holocaust was okay‽
Stranger: No
Stranger: Some people may believe it was
Stranger: it can be argued
Stranger: just like we are argueing now
Stranger: But abortion isn't really a big thing
Stranger: Slavery was huge
Stranger: starting a 5 year war
You: There was only a war because people opposed slavery.
You: Without the abolitionists, the Civil War couldve been avoided
Stranger: But with how it affected so many people
Stranger: someone always has to oppose something
You: Abortion KILLED so many people
You: Abortion makes the Holocaust look like a box of kittens.
Stranger: Holocaust was worse
You: Do you know how many people died in the Holocaust?
Stranger: 7 million
You: 11 million.
You: 6 million Jews.
You: Do you know how many people are killed by abortion every year?
Stranger: But this isn't done by one man, or one organization
You: No, but it is still done.
Stranger: But the problem is too many people dont care
Stranger: and if a war is started, who will it go against?
Stranger: Hospitals?
You: Lots of people didn't care about the Holocaust.
You: It took Pearl Harbor to bring the US into WW2
Stranger: But the holocaust didn't start because of a war
You: Actually, that's debatable.
You: The Nazis wouldn't have been able to come to power so easily without WW1.
Stranger: I guess it can be
Stranger: But the war started before the holocaust
You: It was the forced raparations and economic destabilization that lead to the Holocaust.
You: But that's off topic.
You: You think that a person can be property?
Stranger: No
Stranger: I just couldn
Stranger: I just couldnt put it in any other way
You: You said the baby was her property.
Stranger: The mother has full control of the baby that she is feeding and taking care of
You: Why?
You: I mean the parents are feeding and taking care of the newborn while adoption is sorted out.
Stranger: But that's until it is given away
You: And pregnancy is until birth.
You: Both are temporary conditions until custody can be given up.
You: Both involve a baby who you readily admit is a person.
Stranger: one would rather abort then wait for an adoption
You: What if they'd rather shoot the newborn than wait for adoption?
Stranger: then go ahead, shoot it
You: Really?
Stranger: Yeah
You: Go ahead and shoot the newborn baby?
Stranger: their choice not mine
You: How about shooting a kindergartener?
Stranger: Okay, shoot the kindergartener for no reason
Stranger: Go right into a school, find one and shoot it
You: Really?
Stranger: Yeah
Stranger: I don't know
Stranger: Again, it's their choice
You: You're not serious.
Stranger: I am serious...
Stranger: I have been serious through this whole chat
Stranger: Why would you bring in shooting kindergarteners, hell, why would you bring in shooting?
You: Because it's the same person as the baby, just older.
Stranger: So why shoot it?
You: Why not?
Stranger: A gun is expensive
You: If you've already got a gun, why not?
You: I mean abortion is expensive too.
Stranger: But you can risk going to jail
You: You can get a gun that will do the job for much less than an abortion.
You: If you have an abortion in the wrong country the same thing could happen
Stranger: So you are saying shooting kids with a gun is more efficient than abortion?
You: I'm saying it costs less.
You: And accomplishes a dead kid just the same.
Stranger: But with a chance of going to jail
You: If abortion was illegal, the same would apply to it.
Stranger: yes
You: Should parents be allowed to save money by shooting unwanted kids?
You: If not, why not?
Connection imploded.
Was this conversation great? Share the log on Facebook or download it!

Wednesday, May 26, 2010

Frankly, there is nothing wrong with murder

You're now chatting with a random stranger. Say hi!
You: Hey.
Stranger: hello
You: Did you hear about Zoe Ball?
Stranger: no. whats that?
You: A baby in Australia.
Stranger: ok, well im sorry. i live in canada.
You: She was recently killed in utero when her mother was run down by a drunk driver.
Stranger: oh damn
You: But the New South Wales law basically says they never existen.
You: she never existed*
Stranger: how?
You: They won't let her parents file a murder or manslaughter charge.
Stranger: what kind of law is that??
You: A stupid one.
You: And Zoe was 8 months!
Stranger: obviously. i mean what the fuck?
Stranger: what does the law state?
You: Since Zoe hadn't taken her first breath the law didn't recognize her as human.
Stranger: oh. she wasn't born yet
You: Yeah.
Stranger: still, the driver should have been prosecuted
You: I said "killed in utero".
You: The police report did not even mention Zoe's death!
Stranger: maybe it hadn't been confirmed?
You: No, the law in Australia just doesn't give a shit about you if you haven't been born.
Stranger: um north america has a political party that is the same way
You: That's stupid.
Stranger: im guessing you're anti-abortion?
You: Yeah, I am.
Stranger: i honestly think that after 3 months, when the child has consciousness, the mother should no longer be able to abort it
You: What do you mean by "consciousnedd"?
You: ss*
Stranger: if the child can have thoughts, or can learn at that stage, then it should be considered human
You: What do you mean by "thoughts"?
Stranger: but before that, i think the mother should be able to abort
You: Because before about a year after birth, a baby's "thoughts" are below that of some animals.
Stranger: even so, animals have rights
You: So, you think that someone gets rights based on their mental capabilities?
Stranger: no, i think that the world is overpopulated, and some people get pregnant without intention.
Stranger: condoms are not perfect.
You: So you think that it's okay to kill people to reduce the population?
Stranger: lol absolutely. born or not, it has to be done. People die all the time. Death is the only real certainty. I don't look at it with a cynical point of view
Stranger: i mean, i wouldn't volunteer, but if it happened to me, that's the way it goes
You: Seriously?
Stranger: are you a christian?
You: No, I'm not.
Stranger: atheist?
You: Yes.
Stranger: same as me
You: I'm a humanist, though.
You: I like to be moral and I don't like solving problems with violence.
Stranger: what do you believe the meaning of life is?
You: I think the meaning of life is whatever you make it.
Stranger: exactly. it's your perception
Stranger: there is no truth in morality
You: Should it be legal just to go on a raping spree?
Stranger: morality is nice, but it's a social code of conduct, which is easily dropped when times are tough
Stranger: no, that would disrupt society greatly
You: so?
Stranger: societies are just like a bee hive
Stranger: the workers get enough to live, and work all their lives
Stranger: knowing that the hive doesnt give a fuck about them
You: okay, should it be legal for parents to kill their children up to 6 years of age if they get too expensive?
Stranger: and when they die, they die with the delusion that they made a difference. That their life meant something
Stranger: people used to do it.
You: Should they be allowed to?
Stranger: the only difference is now society says it's wrong
You: Society is starting to say abortion is wrong.
Stranger: No, if they did that, humanity itself might be in danger
Stranger: well society has gone too far the wrong way
Stranger: they went from being too tough to being pussies
You: So should it be legal to kill a 6-year-old?
Stranger: I don't go by social standards. i go by my own
Stranger: i already said no
You: Why not?
Stranger: but for logical reasons, not moral ones
Stranger: you like to feel moral because you feel good
Stranger: so feel good about yourself when living people are starving to death because of a bastard child that a whore couldn't abort.
You: Why can't you kill a toddler that you can't feed, then?
Stranger: it's not accepted in our society. not all
You: Abortion is starting to be not accepted in our society.
Stranger: by some
Stranger: not all
You: Okay, how about slavery?
Stranger: christianity is also widely accepted in our society
You: Should slavery be allowed?
You: For a long time, slavery was embraced by society.
Stranger: there's no need of it. We all work for the ones who don't pay taxes. Slavery is still embraced, just hidden in a fascism
You: Sigh. I'm talking about actual, chains-and-whips-and-plantations slavery.
Stranger: well that's hard to answer
Stranger: i guess it doesn't matter. as long as it helps humanity, but even then it means nothing
Stranger: i mean the pyramids and the collosseum were built by slaves
You: Not true, actually.
Stranger: yes it is
Stranger: lol
You: Watch the History Channel. We recently discovered they were built by regular workers.
Stranger: i watch the history channel. it's not always right
You: But what good are the pyramids?
Stranger: the nostradamus effect for instance
You: They could've done the same thing with a small hole and a headstone.
Stranger: it was their religious belief.
You: So?
Stranger: btw what does this have to do with abortion?
You: You said that abortion was okay because society accepts it.
You: Society accepted slavery.
You: Society in the middle east accepts stoning rape victims.
You: Society is often horribly, horribly wrong.
Stranger: sry
Stranger: looking at something
Stranger: but if what you say is true, then you could be wrong
Stranger: there is not a damn thing you can say scientifically that says what is morally right
Stranger: other than "it's wrong"
You: So does that mean we should go into a state of anarchy where anyone can kill anyone at any age for any reason?
Stranger: that's not what im suggesting at all. You're missing the point
You: Well if morality is nonexistent what would be wrong with it?
Stranger: You think that understanding of morality means the full collapse of society
Stranger: but i'd like to show you that you are immoral. and it's ok
Stranger: please name one thing you've done selflessly
You: I've never killed anyone.
Stranger: that's not selfless. you did it because you knew if u did kill someone you'd get arrested and feel bad. That's fear of punishment
You: I wouldn't kill anyone even if it was legal.
Stranger: you calculated the pros and cons
Stranger: you say that now, because you think you'd feel bad
Stranger: you think you're better than an animal?
You: No, I don't.
You: Animals automatically behave according to a moral code that's in their genes.
You: I have the option to "sin".
Stranger: well animals kill what they need to survive. There is no moral code. it's instinct to survive
Stranger: they want to live, and every species is competing for dominance
You: Animals don't kill eachother willy nilly.
Stranger: untrue
Stranger: animals kill for territory
You: Animals even form societies to protect one another.
Stranger: yes, to survive
Stranger: it's a selfish need
Stranger: an instinct
You: yes
You: correct.
Stranger: so you've not refuted anything i've said
You: What did you say?
Stranger: that moral codes do not exist. They are rules pushed into our brains when we were young.
Stranger: Frankly, there is nothing wrong with murder
You: There isn't?
Stranger: nope
You: Okay.
You: Here's my offer.
You: Would you vote for a pro-murder politician?
You: Would you sign a law decriminalizing rape?
Stranger: noo. but not because murder is wrong. because that would have a negative effect on me, and anyone around me, which would inevitably affect me
You: Okay, how old are you?
Stranger: does that matter?
You: Yes, it does.
Stranger: im 16.
You: Would you vote for a politician who supported murdering and/or raping those 15 and under?
Stranger: i already answered you.
You: You're 16.
You: I said 15 and under.
Stranger: noo. but not because murder is wrong. because that would have a negative effect on me, and anyone around me, which would inevitably affect me
Stranger: i know people 15 and under
You: How young is your youngest friend?
Stranger: if it were people i don't know, probably not. im not completely without moral fiber, and if it takes the little effort of marking a paper, why not?
Stranger: after all, you can't wipe someone completely once they've been brainwashed
You: Okay, you vote for a politician who supported murdering and/or raping those 2 and under?
Stranger: na. i want to have a kid one day
You: So?
Stranger: i don't want him/her to be raped
You: Okay, then would vote for a politician who supported murdering those 2 and under
Stranger: i said no
Stranger: because i want kids
You: Okay, then would vote for a politician who supported murdering those 0 and under
Stranger: look man, we can continue the what if game, but the simple fact is, i use my calculations the same way u use morals, but i throw out the bullshit reasoning.
You: If you want to have a baby, how would you feel if she was killed like Zoe was?
Stranger: obviously terrible. but manslaughter is not abortion
Stranger: only the mother should eb able to abort the child
Stranger: be*
You: why?
Stranger: because it's her responsibility
Stranger: it's her pain
Stranger: it's her life,
You: It's your responsibility too.
Stranger: the father shouldn't have a say. That would be taking the mother's freedom of choice away
You: The father doesn't get a choice?
Stranger: he has the choice to stay or go
You: What about child support?
Stranger: well as i said, if the mother had 3 months to abort it, knew the father wouldn't be around, then he shouldn't pay
Stranger: my mother raised me alone without it.
You: Not everyone knows their pregnant by 3 months.
Stranger: and if they don't then they're stuck with it
Stranger: she should get tested
You: That's not taking the mother's freedom of choice away?
Stranger: well it would at that point be murder
Stranger: when she has it, she can give it up for adoption
You: I thought there was nothing wrong with murder.
Stranger: not morally, but legally
You: Okay, so whatever the law says goes?
Stranger: lol you think otherwise?
You: Because the law says abortion is also okay after 3 months.
Stranger: it's not a choice. if you break the law, you go to jail or pay a fine.
Stranger: now it does yes,
Stranger: i disagree with both sides
You: Okay, so what's wrong with killing a 6-month fetus?
Stranger: it can think.
You: So can an adult.
Stranger: it now has the main human trait
You: But you said there's nothing wrong with murder.
Stranger: i feel like im running in circles lol
Stranger: LEGALLY it's prohibited
Stranger: MORALLY, fuck it
You: But LEGALLY it's okay to kill a 6-month fetus.
Stranger: i said i disagree
You: How can you disagree with it?
You: LEGALLY it's okay, and MORALLY all murder is fine.
Stranger: no morally, im indifferent
Stranger: which leaves it to legallity
You: But it's legal to kill a 6-month fetus.
You: What basis do you have to oppose killing said fetus.
Stranger: murder is illegal
You: Yes, but abortion is not.
Stranger: i never said the law is perfect
You: But without morality what do you have to compare the law with?
Stranger: but killing something that can't think is hardly murder
Stranger: i don't need anything. Legallity in itself is a self-justifying system in many cases
You: Okay.
Stranger: btw how old r u?
You: 17.
You: You disagree with the law on 3-9 month fetuses.
You: How so?
Stranger: i've stated it about 12 times. i can;t do it again
You: If it is both morally and legally acceptable.
Stranger: because if people say murder is illegal, i agree. If people say that women should not be stuck with children they can't afford, i agree
Stranger: this is a compromise
You: The law allows abortions at 4 months, and according to you morality allows murder at ANY age.
Stranger: ah 4 months is close enough
You: 6 months then.
Stranger: morality is not something you can argue
Stranger: it's why neither of us can win this arguement. you keep your extremist opinion, and refuse my compromise
You: I just want to know what you're basing this position on.
You: It's not law and it's not morality.
You: What's the third option?
Stranger: Just because i want it legal, doesn't mean it's not a legal position, and you're right, it's not moral
You: Huh?
Stranger: the law changes. this is the way i want it to be
Stranger: so that it is fair in all positions
You: Okay, so you're talking about what the law should be.
You: So what do you base this desire on?
You: Something outside the law, obviously.
Stranger: the law is used to keep fairness. i dont hold my opinion strongly. Frankly, i hope i never need abortion, but it's possible
You: Okay, so your opinion is based on fairness?
Stranger: yes.
You: Is it fair for a woman to be denied an abortion just because she found out she was pregnant too late?
Stranger: yes. she wasn't careful enough.
You: Is it fair for a woman to be denied an abortion at 2 and a half months??
Stranger: nope
You: she wasn't careful enough either.
You: both got pregnant.
Stranger: but the child didn't suffer
Stranger: he didnt feel anything
Stranger: therefore he didnt exist
You: Is abortion at 9 months fair if the child is anesthetized?
Stranger: no. it can still think
Stranger: it was alive
Stranger: that's like saying "is it ok to kill a human if he's asleep?"
You: And the 2-month baby is not alive?
Stranger: morally, sure, but legally, nope
Stranger: a fucking tree is alive
Stranger: doesnt make it special
You: Why does mental capacity make you special?
Stranger: because it differenciates you from a tree.
You: So does size and mobility.
Stranger: you cant be mobile without a brain
Stranger: and do u think anyone would care about you if you stood in the yard all damn day?
Stranger: no matter how big u are
Stranger: ive been on defense this whole arguement and it's kinda boring.
You: So what's so special about mental capability that distinguishes it from all the other differences between you and a tree?
You: Species also distinguishes us from a tree.
Stranger: because without it, you would not argue, you could not laugh, or cry or feel. you would not be human.
Stranger: Frankly i don't care if a braindead person dies
You: I would be human.
Stranger: not to me
You: Every cell in my body would still be screaming "Homo s. sapiens"
Stranger: the cells that can't speak. the ones that die all the time and don't amount to shit.
Stranger: people die all the time. might as well get used to it
Stranger: it will NEVER change
You: But it's not fair to kill people.
Stranger: how? death is unbias. IF you die because you pissed someone off, you paid the consequences
Stranger: if you die from cancer, that's unfair too
Stranger: death is random
You: So you think murder is fair but abortion at 5 months isn't?
Stranger: a living person has a chance to live.
You: A 3-month fetus is alive.
Stranger: it hasn't thought or experienced anything
Stranger: it doesnt hurt
Stranger: it doesnt care
You: A person under anesthesia doesn't hurt or care either
Stranger: ive adressed this already
Stranger: besides, why not kill someone under anesthesia? he's lived.
You: Okay, so all that matters is if you've experienced something?
Stranger: it's fair to the mother that she gets a chance to escape poverty, and it's fair that the child get's a chance to live.
Stranger: there is no other way that offers both
Stranger: you've taken the side of a fetus over a human
You: What species would you class a human's fetus as?
Stranger: i mean a real person
You: The mother who finds out she's pregnant at 4 months has no chance to escape poverty.
Stranger: not a mass of flesh that isn't even alive
Stranger: well that mother had a chance and blew it
You: If the fetus isn't alive, why does it need food?
You: The fetus that's killed at 2.9 months gets no chance to live.
Stranger: need i use the tree analogy again?
You: A tree is alive.
Stranger: would you save it over a human?
You: No, I wouldn't.
You: What species would you class a human's fetus as?
Stranger: human, but it's more similar to a tree.
Stranger: but why not save a tree over a human?
You: We've established that the fetus is human
You: And is alive.
Stranger: a tree is alive
You: A tree is not human.
Stranger: so?
Stranger: what makes u better than a tree? u asked the same question.
You: I'm not better than a tree. I only ask for protection from my fellow humans.
You: If I was a tree, I'd save the tree over the human.
Stranger: so your moral code is exclusive?
You: My moral code applies to intraspecies conduct.
Stranger: so it is
Stranger: so you're looking at species. i look at individuals
You: Individuals make up a species.
Stranger: i'd rather save my dog than some people. is that morally wrong?
You: In addition, "species" is a characterisitc of individuals
You: yes
Stranger: so you are bias
You: Not horribly wrong, though.
Stranger: doesnt matter
You: I'm more concerned about direct aggression.
You: If you would choose to kill a person over a dog, that is immoral.
Stranger: i dont care. your moral code says save humans over animals, even though you say you are not better and humans are no better
Stranger: in my world, that is called hypocracy
You: No, my moral code says to prefer my own species.
You: If I was a dog, I'd save the dog.
Stranger: but you're not a dog, you're not a fetus, and you're not a mother
You: I used to be a fetus.
You: I am a human.
Stranger: the mother was a fetus too
You: Yes, and I wouldn't kill her either.
You: Thus, my morality tells me to stick up for other humans.
Stranger: but u prefer the fetus over the mother
You: No.
You: If a fetus wanted to abort his mother, I'd standup for the mother.
Stranger: it's death u have a problem with
You: I have a problem with violence.
Stranger: what do u believe happens after death?
You: I don't know.
Stranger: what do u think?
You: I've never died.
Stranger: well you've never been a mother, you cant remember being a fetus and you've never died...
You: I don't remember being 2 either, but I can still say it's wrong to kill toddlers.
Stranger: but you'd kill every toddler in the world if it meant saving yourself
You: So what?
Stranger: it's a strawman
Stranger: your moral code is easily dropped
You: I don't think rationally under pressure.
You: That's why we have laws.
Stranger: now you've had 2 hours, and you've not convinced me
You: If we could trust people to be moral, we wouldn't need the law.
Stranger: give me one reason why killing babies is wrong?
You: Just one?
Stranger: yep .one irrefutable one
You: It deprives them of their future, as does murder at any age.
Stranger: but why is that matter?
You: Why does it matter that a tree can't think?
You: Killing babies also goes against the biological origin of the very concept of morality.
Stranger: lol biological origin?
You: Yes.
You: Morality evolved as a survival instinct for species.
Stranger: instincts and morals are not the same
You: Without the instincts we'd have no concept of "right" and "wrong"
Stranger: you know right from wrong because you were told
Stranger: not because you evolved
You: Even babies have morals.
You: Animals too.
Stranger: no they don't
Stranger: they have instincts
You: And where exactly did my parents get the knowledge of right and wrong?
Stranger: from their parents
You: Where did the concept originate?
Stranger: and over time, as it benefitted more people, they made up better moralities
Stranger: and passed them on like a religion
You: Where did my grandparents learn of morality?
Stranger: sorry, but im done this retarded conversation. bye :)
Your conversational partner has disconnected.
Was this conversation great? Share the log on Facebook or download it!