Saturday, July 21, 2012


You're now chatting with a random stranger. Say hi!
You: How do you feel about abortion?
Stranger: conflicted
Stranger: on the one hand preserving life is what a country should do... on the other hand the woman's freedom and equality should be respected
You: Do you believe that freedom should include the right to take away another person's freedom?
Stranger: no but where does personhood begin?
You: Shouldn't personhood include all human beings?
Stranger: if it isn't at conception, when is it?
You: Why can't it be at conception?
Stranger: no I'm agreeing
You: So you believe that personhood begins at conception?
Stranger: human life should be protected
Stranger: no
Stranger: human life begins at conception
You: But personhood doesn't?
Stranger: do you consider a mentally challenged human a person?
Stranger: no, personhood doesnt begin there, but human life
You: Of course I do.
You: When does personhood begin?
Stranger: when human life begins to think
You: What do you mean by "think"?
Stranger: own thoughts and expressions
Stranger: "i want food" is such an expression
You: Does this extend to other animals as well?
Stranger: no it's not human life
You: Why does it have to be human life?
Stranger: because our topic is abortion?
You: But isn't it important to first establish a definition of personhood before we discuss abortion?
Stranger: it doesn't extend to other animals, because they aren't able to think about future and past....
Stranger: it's instinct for them and they don't actively think about past
You: So you have to be able to think about the future and the past to be a person?
Stranger: yes
You: What about human newborns, who act only on instinct for several months after birth?
Stranger: they are not persons, they are human life
You: But can't they have thoughts like "I want food."?
Stranger: yes i should have clarified
Stranger: an active thought which you can think about itself
Stranger: not instinct
Stranger: so newborns arent included
You: So by your definition, are newborns and those with severe Alzheimer's not persons?
Stranger: newborns arent persons, alzheimer patients were persons, and are now severely limited in their personhood
Stranger: they can plan for a few minutes or for a day
Stranger: so they are human life, no persons anymore
You: If someone is mentally handicapped or degraded to a point where they have the mental age of a newborn, are they a person?
Stranger: no, they are a human
Stranger: and not a person
You: Is it okay to kill them, then?
Stranger: no
Stranger: because human life is protected
You: Should I be allowed to kill a newborn or someone with the mental age of a newborn?
Stranger: it depends
Stranger: no it doesnt depend
Stranger: you should not be allowed
You: What about my freedom?
Stranger: in abortion, its a question if the unborn will prevent a womans freedom
Stranger: if you already have given birth to a newborn, you are responsible for it
Stranger: and if you have already given birth to a baby who will stay a baby mentally forever
Stranger: you are responsible for it
Stranger: you haven't taken measures during or before pregnancy
You: What if it's someone else's baby? Could I kill it then?
Stranger: unborn? no, it's not your body
Stranger: born baby? what are you thinking?
You: What if it's someone else's born baby?
Stranger: human life is protected
You: So my freedom doesn't extend to the taking of human life?
Stranger: it doesnt
Stranger: unless it concerns your body
Stranger: same with unborn and defending yourself
You: What do you mean "defending yourself"?
Stranger: you can take a humans life in defense of your body, if they are threatening to kill you
Stranger: if they severely limit your freedom or want to take away your personhood, you can defend yourself from the threat
You: Should abortion be allowed at 9 months?
Stranger: no
Stranger: you havent been limited by the pregnancy and had enough time to think about how it affects your freedom, now you have a responsibility
You: Have you seen the show "I Didn't Know I Was Pregnant!"?
Stranger: no
Stranger: ignorance is really no excuse in law
You: If someone doesn't find out they were pregnant until late in the pregnancy for whatever reason, should they be allowed an abortion at 9 months?
Stranger: they weren't educated, they didn't educate themselves and it is not their fault
Stranger: but being dumb is no excuse
You: But what if they weren't dumb? What if they have a medical condition whose symptoms are very similar to those of pregnancy, and they were using contraception, so they just didn't realize they were pregnant until very late in the pregnancy?
Stranger: it's not dumbness, it's uninformedness and maybe ignorance
Stranger: and with this far into pregnancy, why do you want to abort? it will still be painful
Stranger: the baby can be given to adoption if you so desire
You: What if they fell into a coma before they found out they were pregnant, and only now recovered?
Stranger: but human life is and should be protected, your life now so far into this pregnancy is not being restricted
You: When should the cut-off be for when abortion is allowed?
Stranger: when doctors say so it is
Stranger: really if abortion and healthy delivery are almost the same procedure...
Stranger: girls and women would probably be hurting themselves far more by aborting this far into pregnancy
Stranger: than actually delivering
You: If it's their body, why shouldn't they be allowed to make that decision?
Stranger: because their body is not restricted in any way this far into pregnancy
You: What do you mean?
You: Isn't it much more restricting to be very pregnant?
Stranger: pregnant for a few more days? it would be the same procedure as a delivery but with a dead born!
Stranger: it's restricting to be pregnant, yes!
You: If you're 8 months pregnant, how are you not more restricted than if you are 2 months pregnant?
Stranger: because you could live with it
You: You could live with what?
Stranger: you already were 8 months pregnant
Stranger: you have endured the pregnancy
Stranger: it's not less restricting, but you have apparently had no restrictions whatsoever
You: What if you'd just woken up from a coma?
Stranger: you haven't woken up because of a pregnancy... then you'd have to deliver the baby, because it's healthier for you and the unborn, and it doesn't restrict your freedom
You: So if a woman has just woken up from an 8-month coma and discovers she's pregnant, and she's freaking out and really wants an abortion, she should be denied one/
Stranger: well
You: *?
Stranger: im not a doctor
Stranger: but it would still be roughly the same procedure for a dead baby
Stranger: she would probably freak out more if there is a dead baby coming out of her life-bearing organ
You: If it's her body, shouldn't it be up to her?
Stranger: we're repeating ourselves
Stranger: and yes it is up to her
Stranger: but when it doesn't make a difference, the human life should be protected
You: It makes a difference to her. She really wants to abort.
Stranger: why is she so cruel then?
Stranger: is she sadist and wants to see a dead baby?
You: Does it matter? It's her body, isn't it?
Stranger: it's not her body anymore
You: What do you mean?
Stranger: it's that of another life, too
You: Could you hang on a second while I fix something to eat?
Stranger: she should come to her senses after calming down and think that delivery is really the best option so far into pregnancy
Stranger: of course she will freak out!
Stranger: it's a fucking horror scenario
Stranger: yeahhh im gonna call it a day but its been fun bye...
Your conversational partner has disconnected.