the human form

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Stranger: Ask a gay guy anything

You: How do you feel about the "gay gene" hypothesis?

Stranger: its an interesting hypothesis but

Stranger: i believe it is that coupled with hormones in the womb that determine your sexuality

Stranger: which is why its not black and white

You: Do you think we should look for the gene and/or hormones that cause homosexuality?

Stranger: idk

Stranger: probably

Stranger: just so we know where it is

Stranger: although

Stranger: it is said it is a mixture of certian genes

Stranger: not just one gene

You: What if people then started aborting babies that showed those genes/hormones?

Stranger: well it would be pretty hard to detect the hormones a they final rush of hormones is quite late in the pregnancy

Stranger: as*

You: Abortions can still be done late in pregnancy.

Stranger: true

Stranger: but in theory, they gay gene would go away i guess

Stranger: but

Stranger: there are some advantages to humanity , to 10% of the population being gay

You: I guess my question is would that be a bad thing, prenatally finding and killing gay people.

Stranger: well yeh

Stranger: think about it if they weren't in the womb

You: Hmm.

You: So how do you feel about abortion in general?

Stranger: im against it tbh, but

Stranger: i have no right to tell others what to do

You: You don't?

Stranger: so if they want one

You: Who told you that?

Stranger: up to them

You: So if I wanted to set fire to my neighbor's house, rape his cat, and kidnap his daughter, you'd have no right to tell me not to do that?

Stranger: well

Stranger: i guess i would try and stop you doing that

You: Why?

Stranger: i guess what i ment

Stranger: i have no right to tell others what to do with their own body*

You: True, I guess.

You: But the child is another body.

You: You can certainly tell someone what not to do to someone else's body.

Stranger: well its not a child, its still a foetus

You: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/child

child   
[chahyld] Show IPA
–noun, plural chil·dren.

4.
a human fetus.

You: But whatever, let's use the word fetus.

You: But the fetus is another body.

You: You can certainly tell someone what not to do to someone else's body.

Stranger: the foetus is not a body yet

Stranger: its just a group of cells

You: So are you.

Stranger: possibly with ought a brain

You: Bodies are made of cells.

Stranger: or any understanding of who/what it is

You: So in order to have a body, you need to be self-aware?

Stranger: no, you need to have developed most of the major organs

You: Well, that happens about 8 weeks from conception.

You: So are you saying you oppose abortion of fetuses, but not of embryos?

Stranger: tbh

Stranger: i dont know for sure

Stranger: ive heard both sides of the debate for this

Stranger: and i dont know who's right

You: And why do you need all the major organs to have a body?

You: Why can't you have a body that just happens to not have all the organs yet?

You: But okay, think of it this way.

You: You're saying you don't know if abortion kills a person, right?

Stranger: right

Stranger: well an embyryo

You: Well, what do we do in other such situations?

Stranger: as i have mixed up terms

You: Do we demolish up a building before we know if there are still people in it?

You: If a hunter sees a rustling in a bush, shouldn't he make sure it's a deer and not a fellow hunter before shooting?

Stranger: if its his bush

Stranger: wait no

Stranger: i misread that

You: If you're driving in a car, and see a humanoid shape coming at you, wouldn't you swerve, even if you didn't know if it was a scarecrow, a coat in the wind, or a human being?

You: In any other situation in which human life is at stake, we err on the side of life.

You: Why should abortion be the one exception?

Stranger: So if it has the potential to be human it should be allowed to live?

You: I didn't say that.

You: I said if we don't know if an entity is a person or not, we err on the side of caution.

You: If the embryo isn't a human yet, there's nothing wrong with abortion. But if the embryo is a human, it's immoral to kill said embryo.

Stranger: so if the mother doesn't want the baby we let it be born into a would were it will be unwanted?

You: Would you kill an infant to prevent her from growing up unwanted?

Stranger: that's diferent

You: Why?\

You: It's the same person, just older.

You: Do we become more human as we grow up? Biology tells us an organism can't change species.

Stranger: well

Stranger: when we are a embryo

Stranger: we dont have the human form yet

You: What is "the human form"?

You: We have the form of a human at that age.

You: Humans have different forms at different stages of development.

Stranger: em·bry·o (ĕmˈbrē-ōˌ)
noun pl. embryos em·bry·os
a. An organism in its early stages of development, especially before it has reached a distinctively recognizable form.

You: Recognizable, yes.

You: But notice the word "organism".

You: An organism can't be part of another organism.

You: The embryo is a separate body from the mother, so your "i have no right to tell others what to do with their own body" doesn't apply.

Stranger: well its going to be affecting the mother's body for most of a year

You: Also, "before it has reached a distinctively recognizable form" doesn't mean the embryo isn't human.

You: It just means that the human form at that stage is similar to many other forms.

Stranger: so i think it does

You: So now you can do whatever you want with anything that affects your body? That's a much broader claim than your original one.

Stranger: i dont know tbh

You: And again, what do we do when we don't know if an action could kill someone?

You: We don't do it.

Stranger: which is why if it were up to me, I wouldnt have one

Stranger: all this stemmed from

Stranger: What if people then started aborting babies that showed those (gay) genes/hormones?

You: Yeah, interesting how conversations evolve.

You: So what, in your view, grants a person the right to not be killed, and to have that right protected by law?

Stranger: well

Stranger: i dont think you should kill a fetus

You: Why not?

Stranger: its got significantly more features of a human than an Embryo does

You: What do you mean by "features of a human"? And what about these grant rights?

You: Are you saying just looking human is enough to have rights, and humans that don't "look" human by whatever arbitrary and subjective aesthetic criteria can be killed by the millions?

You: Wouldn't it be more fair and logical just to grant all humans human rights, regardless of their physical appearance?

Stranger: what about the right's of the mother?

You: If the fetus is a person, she has no more right to kill him or her before birth than after birth.

Stranger: i would agree with you there

Stranger: i dont think an embryo is though

You: Why not?

You: Because the embryo doesn't "look" human, based on some arbitrary and subjective aesthetic criteria you decided make someone disposable?

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