Thursday, March 10, 2011

the human form

You're now chatting with a random stranger. Say hi!
Official messages from Omegle will not be sent with the label 'Stranger:'. Strangers claiming to represent Omegle are lying.
Stranger: Ask a gay guy anything
You: How do you feel about the "gay gene" hypothesis?
Stranger: its an interesting hypothesis but
Stranger: i believe it is that coupled with hormones in the womb that determine your sexuality
Stranger: which is why its not black and white
You: Do you think we should look for the gene and/or hormones that cause homosexuality?
Stranger: idk
Stranger: probably
Stranger: just so we know where it is
Stranger: although
Stranger: it is said it is a mixture of certian genes
Stranger: not just one gene
You: What if people then started aborting babies that showed those genes/hormones?
Stranger: well it would be pretty hard to detect the hormones a they final rush of hormones is quite late in the pregnancy
Stranger: as*
You: Abortions can still be done late in pregnancy.
Stranger: true
Stranger: but in theory, they gay gene would go away i guess
Stranger: but
Stranger: there are some advantages to humanity , to 10% of the population being gay
You: I guess my question is would that be a bad thing, prenatally finding and killing gay people.
Stranger: well yeh
Stranger: think about it if they weren't in the womb
You: Hmm.
You: So how do you feel about abortion in general?
Stranger: im against it tbh, but
Stranger: i have no right to tell others what to do
You: You don't?
Stranger: so if they want one
You: Who told you that?
Stranger: up to them
You: So if I wanted to set fire to my neighbor's house, rape his cat, and kidnap his daughter, you'd have no right to tell me not to do that?
Stranger: well
Stranger: i guess i would try and stop you doing that
You: Why?
Stranger: i guess what i ment
Stranger: i have no right to tell others what to do with their own body*
You: True, I guess.
You: But the child is another body.
You: You can certainly tell someone what not to do to someone else's body.
Stranger: well its not a child, its still a foetus

[chahyld] Show IPA
–noun, plural chil·dren.

a human fetus.
You: But whatever, let's use the word fetus.
You: But the fetus is another body.
You: You can certainly tell someone what not to do to someone else's body.
Stranger: the foetus is not a body yet
Stranger: its just a group of cells
You: So are you.
Stranger: possibly with ought a brain
You: Bodies are made of cells.
Stranger: or any understanding of who/what it is
You: So in order to have a body, you need to be self-aware?
Stranger: no, you need to have developed most of the major organs
You: Well, that happens about 8 weeks from conception.
You: So are you saying you oppose abortion of fetuses, but not of embryos?
Stranger: tbh
Stranger: i dont know for sure
Stranger: ive heard both sides of the debate for this
Stranger: and i dont know who's right
You: And why do you need all the major organs to have a body?
You: Why can't you have a body that just happens to not have all the organs yet?
You: But okay, think of it this way.
You: You're saying you don't know if abortion kills a person, right?
Stranger: right
Stranger: well an embyryo
You: Well, what do we do in other such situations?
Stranger: as i have mixed up terms
You: Do we demolish up a building before we know if there are still people in it?
You: If a hunter sees a rustling in a bush, shouldn't he make sure it's a deer and not a fellow hunter before shooting?
Stranger: if its his bush
Stranger: wait no
Stranger: i misread that
You: If you're driving in a car, and see a humanoid shape coming at you, wouldn't you swerve, even if you didn't know if it was a scarecrow, a coat in the wind, or a human being?
You: In any other situation in which human life is at stake, we err on the side of life.
You: Why should abortion be the one exception?
Stranger: So if it has the potential to be human it should be allowed to live?
You: I didn't say that.
You: I said if we don't know if an entity is a person or not, we err on the side of caution.
You: If the embryo isn't a human yet, there's nothing wrong with abortion. But if the embryo is a human, it's immoral to kill said embryo.
Stranger: so if the mother doesn't want the baby we let it be born into a would were it will be unwanted?
You: Would you kill an infant to prevent her from growing up unwanted?
Stranger: that's diferent
You: Why?\
You: It's the same person, just older.
You: Do we become more human as we grow up? Biology tells us an organism can't change species.
Stranger: well
Stranger: when we are a embryo
Stranger: we dont have the human form yet
You: What is "the human form"?
You: We have the form of a human at that age.
You: Humans have different forms at different stages of development.
Stranger: em·bry·o (ĕmˈbrē-ōˌ)
noun pl. embryos em·bry·os
a. An organism in its early stages of development, especially before it has reached a distinctively recognizable form.
You: Recognizable, yes.
You: But notice the word "organism".
You: An organism can't be part of another organism.
You: The embryo is a separate body from the mother, so your "i have no right to tell others what to do with their own body" doesn't apply.
Stranger: well its going to be affecting the mother's body for most of a year
You: Also, "before it has reached a distinctively recognizable form" doesn't mean the embryo isn't human.
You: It just means that the human form at that stage is similar to many other forms.
Stranger: so i think it does
You: So now you can do whatever you want with anything that affects your body? That's a much broader claim than your original one.
Stranger: i dont know tbh
You: And again, what do we do when we don't know if an action could kill someone?
You: We don't do it.
Stranger: which is why if it were up to me, I wouldnt have one
Stranger: all this stemmed from
Stranger: What if people then started aborting babies that showed those (gay) genes/hormones?
You: Yeah, interesting how conversations evolve.
You: So what, in your view, grants a person the right to not be killed, and to have that right protected by law?
Stranger: well
Stranger: i dont think you should kill a fetus
You: Why not?
Stranger: its got significantly more features of a human than an Embryo does
You: What do you mean by "features of a human"? And what about these grant rights?
You: Are you saying just looking human is enough to have rights, and humans that don't "look" human by whatever arbitrary and subjective aesthetic criteria can be killed by the millions?
You: Wouldn't it be more fair and logical just to grant all humans human rights, regardless of their physical appearance?
Stranger: what about the right's of the mother?
You: If the fetus is a person, she has no more right to kill him or her before birth than after birth.
Stranger: i would agree with you there
Stranger: i dont think an embryo is though
You: Why not?
You: Because the embryo doesn't "look" human, based on some arbitrary and subjective aesthetic criteria you decided make someone disposable?
Your conversational partner has disconnected.
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