Saturday, June 26, 2010

anything is fine as long as it doesnt happen to me

You're now chatting with a random stranger. Say hi!
You: Tacos are awesome, but abortion isn't.
Stranger: yes it is
Stranger: you lie
You: What?
Stranger: and tacos arent hat great
You: How is abortion awesome?
Stranger: how isnt it?
You: It's mean.
Stranger: to who?
You: To the baby.
Stranger: its not a baby
Stranger: its a foetus
You: Same thing, according to the dictionary.
Stranger: no its not
Stranger: learn to read the dictionary before you quote it O_O
You: Fine you want a link?
Stranger: gladly
You: hold on
Stranger: theres one for you
You: That's Wikipedia.
Stranger: yes it is
Stranger: its more detailed
Stranger: than a definition
You: Wikipedia is an encyclopedia.
Stranger: your look at the wrong word noob
Stranger: read what a foetus is before deciding the its a baby
You: S: (n) baby (an unborn child; a human fetus) "I felt healthy and very feminine carrying the baby"; "it was great to feel my baby moving about inside"
Stranger: thats not
Stranger: a definition
Stranger: for foetus
Stranger: •S: (n) fetus, foetus (an unborn or unhatched vertebrate in the later stages of development showing the main recognizable features of the mature animal)
Stranger: this is
You: It's a definition for babt.
You: Fine.
Stranger: and if you read it
Stranger: its clearly not a baby
You: How so?
Stranger: i know scientific words are hard for some people
Stranger: but just read carefully
You: "Baby" is not a scientific word.
Stranger: foetus is
You: Fine.
You: Let's say child.
Stranger: you dont seem to have problems understanding baby
Stranger: you cant abort children
Stranger: or babies
Stranger: thats my point
You: Main Entry: child
Pronunciation: \ˈchī(-ə)ld\
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural chil·dren \ˈchil-drən, -dərn\
Usage: often attributive
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English cild; akin to Gothic kilthei womb, and perhaps to Sanskrit jaṭhara belly
Date: before 12th century
1 a : an unborn or recently born person
Stranger: thats the point
Stranger: a foetus is not a person
You: Let's skip the semantics.
You: Abortion is mean to the embryo or fetus.
You: There.
You: Happy now?
Stranger: its not even a person
Stranger: its like being mean to a plant
You: The embryo is as human as you or me.
Stranger: not rly
Stranger: its brain isnt quite there
You: We aren't talking about dog fetuses.
Stranger: it wouldnt matter if we were
You: We're talking about fetuses with human parents and human DNA.
Stranger: in early stages all mammalian foetus' are very similar
You: You're thinking of embryos.
Stranger: i am thats true
Stranger: im not very crisp
Stranger: its 2 am
Stranger: which for me is late
Stranger: anywho
You: And you're also speaking of an aesthetic similarity.
Stranger: my point being it hasnt developed human emotions and such
Stranger: its just basic stuff
You: Similar in appearence, but belonging to entirely different species.
Stranger: thus the brain size hardly matters
Stranger: that wasnt my point bubba
Stranger: my point was in earlier stages the uniqueness of a species hasnt rly developed
Stranger: it takes alot longer
Stranger: a foetus is just a lump of flesh
You: What do you mean "the uniqueness of a species"?
You: You're one to talk!
Stranger: cognitive processing
You: What do you think you're made of, plastic?
Stranger: talking about their lack of mind
You: Mind is just a function of flesh.
Stranger: it doesnt matter
Stranger: your saying its mean
Stranger: they dont even know what mean is
You: So would it not be mean to murder someone in a coma?
Stranger: without cognitive processing they are no better than plants
Stranger: calling it a human child at that stage is obsurd
Stranger: and no
Stranger: it wouldnt be
Stranger: in my opinion its a blessing
Stranger: its unnatural to support people in that state
You: I'm talking about a coma, not brain death.
Stranger: in fact
Stranger: thats a similar situation
Stranger: to the reasoning behind abortion
You: As in a temporary state of unconsciousness.
Stranger: or at least what i see as the reasoning for most abortions
Stranger: that being for the people who need to support the child/coma patient, they may not have the means or the money to support them
Stranger: but clearly
You: So it's okay to kill someone who's in a temporary coma, and will wake up soon?
Stranger: mmm well
Stranger: i would think that the shortness takes away from what iv just said
Stranger: its possible than in some situations it would be
Stranger: but i cant think of any
Stranger: that*
You: If someone's going to be in a coma for, say, a week, can I kill them?
Stranger: thats an impossible situation
You: Not at all.
Stranger: because you dont know how long a person will be in a coma for
Stranger: if you did it would simplify things
Stranger: and instead of arguing this
Stranger: which is clearly semantics
Stranger: why dont you provide reasoning
You: The person in a coma has no human emotion.
Stranger: that a foetus does indeed have the mind and the means
Stranger: to be considered human
Stranger: a person in a coma is unconscious
Stranger: they do have human emotion
You: "Human" is a purely biological word, indicating membership in the species H. sapiens, especially the subspecies H. sapiens sapiens.
Stranger: their minds are just inactive
Stranger: a baby has not developed one
Stranger: ugh = =
Stranger: its a list
Stranger: its not scientific
You: "Human" is a list?
Stranger: the term "human emotion" is not scientific
Stranger: its not the cause its the result
You: "Human emotion" is a term you just made up, as far as I can tell.
Stranger: im saying they dont have developed human minds
Stranger: capable of thinking and feeling as people
You: What is a "human mind"?
Stranger: skip the nit picking and make a valid point
You: Okay.
Stranger: its a brain
Stranger: the thing in your head?
You: Yeah, I've had a brain in my head since I was an embryo.
Stranger: yes
Stranger: an undeveloped one
You: There's no such thing as a "developed brain".
Stranger: so you going to make your point?
You: Our brains develop until we die.
Stranger: no they dont
Stranger: you may learn new things
Stranger: but they develop until your 24?
Stranger: or 21
Stranger: its early 20's
You: 30s, IIRC
Stranger: just as your body develops until around 21
You: 35 is when it stops, I think.
You: A newborn baby's brain has not finished developing.
Stranger: yes
Stranger: but mst of that development
You: Does that make it okay to kill a newborn?
Stranger: is as a baby and a young child
Stranger: and no it doesnt
You: Why not?
Stranger: because its alot further along
Stranger: its not even okay to kill late stage foetus
You: So a human is only a human when he or she is capable of thought of a higher order than other animals?
Stranger: no
Stranger: you said yourself thats its a biological term
Stranger: but i would say a human is only a human once they have developed to a certain extent
You: What do you mean by that?
Stranger: i have been talking about brains
Stranger: all along
Stranger: i just dont like the way you phrased it above
You: So what does a brain need to be capable of to be human?
Stranger: Full brain developtment for adolecents occurs at around age 12, and then ceases to develop significantly, or at all, later.

At about age 25 the brain becomes the final areas of brain development, areas that inhibit risky behavoir, are finished.

Stranger: i was one year off
Stranger: poor me
Stranger: your asking me to quantify my emotional disposition about okay and not okay?
Stranger: well then i will askk you
Stranger: what does a brain need to be capable of for you to think its being mean
You: So something happens in cerebral development before age 12 that is significant?
Stranger: no thats irrevelant
Stranger: i just copied
Stranger: the 2 lines instead of just the last one
Stranger: for context
Stranger: i wasnt arguing there
Stranger: just self commenting
Stranger: that i was a year off
Stranger: anywho
You: Well you think that even though a 6-year-old has an underdeveloped brain, he can't be killed.
Stranger: You: what does a brain need to be capable of for you to think its being mean
Stranger: that was my question
Stranger: stick to it
You: Okay.
Stranger: well?
You: I don't think that that is a question that makes sense any more than "what does a liver need to be capable of for you to think its being mean".
You: The brain's capabilities are irrelevant as to human rights.
Stranger: im not going to argue over my writing style
Stranger: when im tired
Stranger: for you to think its mean to kill the organism in question
You: I'm not saying you're writing is confusing.
You: It was syntactically coherent.
Stranger: well then ican only assume your seperating thought and emotion from brain function?
You: No, I am not.
Stranger: it was but not in its intended meaning
You: Thought and emotion are irrelevant as to human rights.
Stranger: we werent talking about human rights
You: Human rights are held intrinsically by all humans, hence the name.
Stranger: we were discussing my opinion of abortion
Stranger: its a personal opinion
Stranger: opinion are biased
Stranger: blah
You: The right to not be killed is the most basic human right!
Stranger: opinions
Stranger: i dont consider a foetus a human
Stranger: thus cognitively i cannot think of it having rights
You: I think you're talking about the philosophical definition of "personhood" (self-awareness, cognitive thought, the ability to plan, and thought beyond instinctual behavior?
Stranger: and thus i dont feel it is wrong to kill it
Stranger: know im talking about the term
Stranger: or maybe im using the word incorrectly
You: "Human" is a biological concept, analogous to "avian" or "bovine".
Stranger: but i just meant my process of thought
You: I think you're talking about the philosophical definition of "personhood" (self-awareness, cognitive thought, the ability to plan, and thought beyond instinctual behavior?
Stranger: human is not just a biological concept
Stranger: it has many other attachments as well
Stranger: ugh bombardment my head spins
You: Lemme simplify things.
Stranger: you dont need to
Stranger: i wasreferring to my lack of reading that properly
Stranger: the first time
You: If we're talking philosophy, right versus wrong, and so on, the term is personhood.
Stranger: so are you saying in this
Stranger: that you believe that it is human
Stranger: genetically speaking
Stranger: and thus deserves the same rights
You: Biologically speaking.
Stranger: thats your point right?
Stranger: - -
You: Correct. I see the \philosophical definition of "personhood" (self-awareness, cognitive thought, the ability to plan, and thought beyond instinctual behavior) as insufficient and flawed.
Stranger: fair enuf
Stranger: but when it comes down to it people always compare
Stranger: im leaving the realm of science
Stranger: and giving you a personal opinion
You: If we're going to use that definition, newborns and the very mentally disabled don't count.
Stranger: humans dont provide rights to things they consider beneath them
Stranger: even if they are human
You: The same logic was given for slavery.
Stranger: whats the term
Stranger: cognitive dissonance?
Stranger: its also the reason for war
Stranger: in my opinion
You: The term is bigotry, discrimination, and so on.
Stranger: if you convince the people they are better than others, they wont object to killing them
You: War is also mean.
Stranger: no its not
Stranger: its my opinion of how people react
Stranger: slavery is an example
Stranger: so is abortion
Stranger: so is war
You: Hundreds of innocent schoolchildren covered in napalm is not mean?
You: I think "mean" is an understatement.
Stranger: the term is cognitive dissonance
You: So is slavery okay?
Stranger: as in even if people cancognitively process that doing something is wrong, they make excuses to themselves and believe them to allow for the behavious to continue
Stranger: that was bad
Stranger: lets give an example
Stranger: im a smoker
Stranger: i know smoking is killing me
Stranger: and that it gives people cancer
You: So you're admitting that your opinion is irrational?
Stranger: etc. etc.
Stranger: but i make excuses to myself
Stranger: to allow me to continue that irrational behaviour
Stranger: im admitting my explanation of cognitive dissonance was horribly
Stranger: horrible
Stranger: gah
You: So if someone makes excuses for raping a toddler, does that make it okay?
Stranger: nope
You: Why not?
Stranger: are raping babies and making excuses
Stranger: but if the majority of people in society
Stranger: then unfortunately
Stranger: it would be seen as okay
You: What?
Stranger: im saying that people in general
Stranger: not one individual
Stranger: have trouble connecting the reasoning that its wrong to kill humans, and foetus' are humans together
You: So rationally abortion is wrong, but people can't accept that because of emotion and human flaws?
Stranger: probably
Stranger: i cant say for sure its wrong
You: So you're not basing your beliefs on logic or reasonings?
Stranger: because the idea of human rights is also in the same way a human emotion of sorts
Stranger: certain things feel wrong
Stranger: wrong is subjective
You: You seem to be making excuses.
You: Is it really?
Stranger: it is
Stranger: i dont think dogs care
Stranger: if we have abortions
Stranger: do they?
You: I think they're more concerned with other dogs.
Stranger: its our human perspective, which is also linked with our human emotions and flaws
Stranger: so i cant say if its wrong or not
Stranger: but if you ask me if i have an issue with it
You: Is it subjective to say it would be wrong to go up to my neighbor, set his house on fire, rape his children, and then play Hannah Montana songs at full blast?
Stranger: or if i think it should be stopped for ethical reasons
Stranger: then no i dont
Stranger: and im done arguing now
Stranger: because its pointless
You: Why don't you think it should be stopped?
Stranger: you cant convince someone your right without evidence
You: I don't even know what you think.
Stranger: and you cant provide evidence for an opinion on ethics
Stranger: there is no quantifiable measure
Stranger: my opinion
You: Does the same apply to rape, arson, and slavery?
Stranger: anything is fine
Stranger: as long as it doesnt happen to me
Stranger: as such
You: Does the same apply to rape, arson, and slavery?
Stranger: what the law says is wrong
Stranger: is wrong
Stranger: and what the law says is fine is fine
Stranger: thus abortion is fine rape, arson, slavery are wrong
Stranger: i dont link abortion to any crime
Stranger: or any violation of human rights
Stranger: because
You: Was slavery fine when it was legal?
Stranger: i have ethical issues
Stranger: with rape
You: Could you email me? I have to go.
Stranger: but if someone rapes a foetus
Stranger: i wouldnt care
Stranger: nah its fine
Stranger: thats all i had to say
Stranger: enjoy your night of trolling
You: You said it was okay if it happened to someone else
Stranger: no i didnt
Stranger: i said i dont care
Stranger: thats my opinion
Stranger: but from a societal standpoint
Stranger: its not good
Stranger: because if it happens to someone it can happen to anyone
Stranger: i have concern for humanity
You: what if it was limited to toddlers?
You: you arent a toddler
Stranger: i consider everything after birth as human
You: but not a minute before?
Stranger: and late stages of foetal development
Stranger: if i considered earlier stages as well
You: Why?
Stranger: then i would have an issue with it
Stranger: because
Stranger: thats an opinion
Stranger: its my perception
You: Many animals are smarter than late term fetuses and newborns
Stranger: your point?
You: The brain is clearly a poor metrc.
Stranger: its not a metric
You: why cant a late fetus be killed
Stranger: it can be
Stranger: :)
You: can a newborn?
Stranger: its just illegal
Stranger: but it can be
Stranger: if your asking what i think is right and wrong
You: not illegal in usa
Stranger: after birth it breathes on its own
Stranger: and its a completely seperate entity
You: not for a few minutes
Stranger: from its mother
Stranger: - Daryl says (2:38 AM):
*it wasnt like last time tho, that was death
*so are we gna kill some babies tmrw?
Stranger: lol the irony
You: ?
Stranger: my friend is using that lovely term to ask if we are drinking? i think
You: lol
You: the baby doesnt breath as soon as its born
Stranger: my main point is the being an individual thing
Stranger: the breathing is just to mean it produces its own energy
You: if its still connected is it?
Stranger: im not sure actually?
You: fetus makes its own energy too
You: just takes food from mom
You: makes energy from foof
You: food
Stranger: the blood is connected
You: no, its not
Stranger: so much blood
Stranger: spinning
Stranger: and flying
You: nutrients are exchanged indirectly through diffusion
You: if the blood mixed, the mother's immune system would reject the fetus
You: the fetus is a separate organism
You: my email is [email]
Stranger: i cant think of it that way
You: whats urs
Stranger: its not that i dont know that
Stranger: i did biology
Stranger: but its an opinion
Stranger: and even if the base logic is flawed
You: its not an opinion
Stranger: no
You: its fact, the embryo is an organism
Stranger: my view of foetus' is an opinion
Stranger: im not disputing you
Stranger: im saying that what i said is opinion
Stranger: since
Stranger: yes right and wrong are subjective
You: even for rape?
Stranger: i think so?
Stranger: there might be some people who think its right
Stranger: i think the abortion laws are just popular opinion
Stranger: same as gay marriage laws
Stranger: its not about public safety or w.e
Stranger: the issues are entirely subjective
You: g2g
You have disconnected.
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