SCIENCE IS WRONG

You're now chatting with a random stranger. Say hi!

You: hi

Stranger: hi

...

Stranger: so youre prolife

You: yeah i guess

You: i just know too many ppl conceived in rape

Stranger: i like to think im a pretty safe person

You: one of my facebook friends was conceived when her mom was gangraped by 8 guys

Stranger: in the sense that i don't put myself into situation where i could be raped so easily

Stranger: and thats horrible

You: yeah

You: but shes an awesome person

Stranger: its still horrible. omg poor mom.

You: and it seems crazy to me to kill her for the actions of her evil father and his 7 evil friends

You: i know!

You: i hope they were arrested

You: i also think it should be an extra crime to impregnate your victim

Stranger: well im prochoice with severe restrictions

Stranger: like i think it wouldve been ok if the mom chose abortion after being gangraped

Stranger: but i don't think that if you put yourself in a stupid situation and just decide that you don't want a baby right now that you can go and get the baby destroyed

You: yeah, i think its terrible that she was gangraped

You: but its also not juda's fault what her dad did

Stranger: well after the fact that she was born i guess you appreciate that shes alive

Stranger: but imagine how her mom must have felt after what happened

You: yeah, that was terrible

You: rapists are some of the worst ppl ever

Stranger: she mustve felt dirty disgusted and left with a life long commitment she had no say in determining

Stranger: agreed

Stranger: we have a few sex offenders in my neighborhod

Stranger: and i live in an upperclass suburban town

You: do you know what they did?

You: some folks get on that list for stupid reason

Stranger: yeah i think like child molestation or something

You: oh

Stranger: which is probably one of the worst things you can do

You: actual child molestation or like an 18yo with his 17 yo gf?

You: the law is retarded in that area

Stranger: no like 35 with an 8 year old

Stranger: what area

Stranger: oh yeah

You: but, i don;t think that we should be held responsible for the crimes of our parents

Stranger: what do you mean

You: i mean that if your dad was a rapist, you shouldnt get the death penalty

You: though im against the death penalty always

Stranger: well it all matters when the baby is aborted

Stranger: like when is the baby actually alive?

You: the baby is alive until the baby is aborted

Stranger: obviously if youre 8 months pregnant then you shouldn't be allowed to have an abortion

Stranger: no but i mean when is the baby a "baby" as opposed to "just a lump of cells"

You: y not?

Stranger: because you waited too long, the baby is already alive

Stranger: it has a brain, its fully developed. its a life. you procrastinated too long with the abortion

You: so, a baby isn't alive at 5 months?

Stranger: thats what im asking you

Stranger: when do we consider a baby to be alive

Stranger: to be a baby

Stranger: most say a baby isn't even a baby until it is physically born

You: if the baby wasn't alive, the baby wouldn't need food from the mom

Stranger: i like to think the baby is no longer a mass grouping of cells after you can determine a heartbeat and brainwaves

Stranger: since we use brainwaves and heartbeats to determine death

Stranger: i think we should use it to determine life also

You: we actually use brainwaves to determine death

Stranger: yep

You: but that's changed

You: it used to be a heartbeat

Stranger: thats why people can be in comas for so long and still be catagorized as alive

You: biologically, life is determined by growth, metabolism, and so on

Stranger: because there is still activity going on in the brain

You: if the baby was dead, he wouldnt need foof

You: food*

Stranger: well we never really know the exact time in which the baby actually needs the food that the mother consumes

Stranger: i mean all cells need ATP to function which is provided by food

You: the baby needs the food from the time he implants

You: otherwise he couldnt grow

Stranger: but the baby can't get direct food from the mother until an embilical (sp?) cord is established

Stranger: and by then im pretty sure you already have brainwaves

You: very early on the baby imbeds into the uterine wall

You: and then grows

Stranger: the baby?

Stranger: i think yuo mean the sperm

You: what?

You: no, the sperm goes into the egg

Stranger: the sperm only contains 50% of the genetic composition.

You: yeah

You: the sperm enters the egg

You: not hte uterine wall

Stranger: idk i think this is a personal question. i think that the baby is considered alive after brainwaves can be detected

You: okay, lemme go check when that is

You: because it's WAY before 8 months

Stranger: other people say life is determined by the oxygen it consumes

Stranger: yeah thats why most abortionists don't do abortions aftr the first trimester

Stranger: iwas just using 8 months as an example

Stranger: i don't think anything past the first 3 months is acceptable

You: well, oxygen enters the embryo from the moment of implantatio

You: n

Stranger: no hun

Stranger: there is no oxygen inside the sack

You: from the mother's bloodstream

Stranger: thats why a lot of women give birth to babies while they are in a pool

You: yeah

Stranger: and thats why the baby cries the second it comes out - because its being exposed to oxygen

Stranger: if it doesn't cry thats when the doctors get worried

You: when the baby is born, he or she switches the source of oxygen

Stranger: because it means that either a) the baby's lungs aren't working

Stranger: b) its already been exposed to oxygen in the sack which can lead to tremendous complications

You: before birth, the oxygen arrives through the mother

Stranger: not directly into the baby's lungs though

Stranger: im talking about actual "breathing"

Stranger: the operation of the respiratory system

Stranger: not the recieval of oxygen through blood cells

You: so, should it be okay to kill the baby after birth before he breaths?

Stranger: thats not what im saying

Stranger: im saying some people think its okay to do so

You: i dont think many people would say that

Stranger: i stand by what i said - life is determined by activity of brainwaves since death is determined by the lacking thereof

Stranger: there are extremists

You: yeah, i know

You: some people think its fine to kill babies up to a month after birth

Stranger: i think thats horrible

Stranger: that is completely unacceptable

You: yeah

Stranger: like i said im a prochoice but with severe restrictions

You: ok i found when the heart starts beating

Stranger: it should be after the first trimester i think

You: it's 3 weeks 1 day after fertilization

Stranger: what about brainwaves

You: im looking

You: 6 weeks, 2 days

Stranger: then anytime before then is okay

Stranger: anytime after that is a no

Stranger: for me at least

You: well, what makes brainwaves so important?

Stranger: because i think life and death are balanced counterparts

Stranger: a person is considered dead after the doctors can no longer detect activity in the brain

You: well, brainwaves are just a temporary legal definition of death

You: as i said, it used to be a heartbeat

Stranger: i believe a person is considered alive after the doctors can detect activity in the brain

You: biologically, there are 7 official signs of life

Stranger: yeah

You: lemme find my textbook

Stranger: isn't it like

Stranger: reproduction

Stranger: adaptability

Stranger: irritability

Stranger: stuff like that i don't remember i took bio two years ago

You: ok

You: found it

You: heredity

You: homeostasis

You: reproduction

You: cellular organization

Stranger: hha got one

You: metabolism

You: growth and development

You: response to stimuli

Stranger: like yousaid though, these are just temporary definitions

You: no, those were the scientific definition

Stranger: through the religious aspect, i think its wrong to destroy a soul because i believe that its a power that belongs to Gpd

You: brainwaves are a legal definition

Stranger: *God

Stranger: they are still definitions none the less

Stranger: an aspect of science just waiting to be proven wrong

You: doesn't the soul live on, though?

Stranger: i guess its who you ask

You: thats what i understood the concept to be

Stranger: you can have an existentialist standpoint

You: im not religious myself

Stranger: or a more socratic one

Stranger: you should read the dialogues of socrates

Stranger: i read it earlier this year as a part of my ap english curriculum

Stranger: its a great read and it discusses the concepts of the "big questions"

You: if the legal community decided that brainwaves were no longer an adequate definition of life, would that change your mind?

Stranger: i move with science

You: Well, science already says brainwaves don't define life.

Stranger: i believe that the more new things are found, the more were closer to finding the exact truth

Stranger: it defines death though

You: Are tomatoes alive?

Stranger: and in my view they are almost one and the same

Stranger: the cells that compose them are

Stranger: because the nucleus (or the brain of the cells) have activity

Stranger: until it rots or dries out

You: can a tree die?

Stranger: *has activity lol sorry i cn't talk

Stranger: yes

Stranger: a tree in my backyard was said to even have "a tumor"

You: lol

You: thats weird

Stranger: yup haha

Stranger: this was a really neat discussion you are one cool kid:)

You: did you cut it off?

You: the tumor?

Stranger: no it spread

You: oh

You: what happened?

Stranger: we had to cut it down because the limbs started rotting

You: wow

You: stupid tree cance

You: r

Stranger: and one limb almost fell on top of my brother while he was playing outside

You: holy ****

Stranger: so thats when we decided to cut it down

You: thats one evil tree tumor

Stranger: hahaha yes

You: so, the tree ended up dead?

Stranger: well

Stranger: the roots still remain the the ground

You: oh

Stranger: we never uprooted the tree

Stranger: we simply just cut off the stump

Stranger: im not sure, maybe the tree still lives underground

You: ok

Stranger: waiting for the right time to sprout up again

You: can the tree die?

Stranger: i think it can

Stranger: scientifically

You: are you saying trees have brainwaves?

Stranger: no but again

Stranger: the cells that compose the tree have brainwaves due to the existence of the nucleus in each othe cells

You: im not sure that's right

Stranger: as long as the cells are still functioning (as defined by the signs of life) then i consider the tree to be alive

Stranger: its an opinionated question

You: then, by your logic, wouldn't the baby be alive?

Stranger: i think it will remain to be that way until we can prove it to be 100%

You: well, science has proved that the baby is alive

You: dead cells dont split

You: omg invader zim is amazing

Stranger: no because the brain is a bigger component. a tree doesn't act like a human because its not as complicated of an organism as a human. i think the brain (since it controls all of the systems) will determine life

Stranger: brb

Stranger: sorry back

Stranger: and to contradict what you say though

You: ok

Stranger: a baby is entirely dependent on its host body (or the mother)

Stranger: it cannot reproduce on its own

Stranger: it cannot adapt to its surroundings

Stranger: although it shows some of the signs of life (like metabolism)

Stranger: it does not show all of them

You: yeahyeah

You: huh?

Stranger: so how can we call it fully alive?

You: the embryo can adapt to its surroundings

Stranger: not entirely

You: what do you mean?

Stranger: it adapts like it knows how

Stranger: should the environment change however

Stranger: it wouldnt survive

You: the embryo regulates the interior of the cells to cope with the surroundings

Stranger: not to extremes though

Stranger: if the mother dies

You: not to extremes, of course.

Stranger: the baby can't survive

You: if the mother dies and the baby has some other way to get food and oxygen, the baby can survive

You: nobody can survive without oxygen

Stranger: hahaha so youre saying life is dtermined by oxygen

You: no, im not

You: but oxygen is needed for most life

Stranger: and the baby doesn't have the capability to find another way to get food and oxygen

Stranger: no it isn't

Stranger: not for green life

Stranger: plants need carbondioxide

Stranger: not oxygen

Stranger: the produce oxygen, but don't consume it

You: okay, animal life

Stranger: well why is animal life so different than plant life

Stranger: isn't life the same thing

Stranger: youre either alive or dead

Stranger: if thats not concrete idk what is ha

You: because animals are heterotrpphs while plants are autotrophs

Stranger: still beings that are alive

Stranger: that they consume, theyre biological composition doesn't matter

Stranger: life vs death

Stranger: you can't be in between

Stranger: or niether

You: so, the baby is dead?

Stranger: thats the question we're trying to solve here

Stranger: when its in its womb, if it isn't dead

Stranger: and it isn't alive

Stranger: then what is it

You: it is alive

You: dead things don't grow and develop

Stranger: says you

Stranger: and im not arguing with you

Stranger: all im saying is that at what point is it alive

Stranger: and at what point is it not

Stranger: alive things know how to reproduce

You: yeah

Stranger: the baby cannot reproduce before it is born

You: ever heard of twins?

Stranger: yeah why

Stranger: no way

Stranger: you are not suggesting what i think youre suggesting

You: asexual reproduction can happen very soon after fertilization

Stranger: that one fetus spawns the other?

Stranger: no wayyyy

Stranger: 2 sperm

Stranger: 2

Stranger: eggs

Stranger: it happens

You: not with identical twins

Stranger: then its 2 sperms that enter

You: with identical twins, one embryo splits in two

You: if 2 sperm enter, the egg dies

You: that would be too much DNA

Stranger: hahah i love this discussion we are having but i have to go

You: ok

Stranger: i have to help my mom

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