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Stranger: so youre prolife
You: yeah i guess
You: i just know too many ppl conceived in rape
Stranger: i like to think im a pretty safe person
You: one of my facebook friends was conceived when her mom was gangraped by 8 guys
Stranger: in the sense that i don't put myself into situation where i could be raped so easily
Stranger: and thats horrible
You: but shes an awesome person
Stranger: its still horrible. omg poor mom.
You: and it seems crazy to me to kill her for the actions of her evil father and his 7 evil friends
You: i know!
You: i hope they were arrested
You: i also think it should be an extra crime to impregnate your victim
Stranger: well im prochoice with severe restrictions
Stranger: like i think it wouldve been ok if the mom chose abortion after being gangraped
Stranger: but i don't think that if you put yourself in a stupid situation and just decide that you don't want a baby right now that you can go and get the baby destroyed
You: yeah, i think its terrible that she was gangraped
You: but its also not juda's fault what her dad did
Stranger: well after the fact that she was born i guess you appreciate that shes alive
Stranger: but imagine how her mom must have felt after what happened
You: yeah, that was terrible
You: rapists are some of the worst ppl ever
Stranger: she mustve felt dirty disgusted and left with a life long commitment she had no say in determining
Stranger: we have a few sex offenders in my neighborhod
Stranger: and i live in an upperclass suburban town
You: do you know what they did?
You: some folks get on that list for stupid reason
Stranger: yeah i think like child molestation or something
Stranger: which is probably one of the worst things you can do
You: actual child molestation or like an 18yo with his 17 yo gf?
You: the law is retarded in that area
Stranger: no like 35 with an 8 year old
Stranger: what area
Stranger: oh yeah
You: but, i don;t think that we should be held responsible for the crimes of our parents
Stranger: what do you mean
You: i mean that if your dad was a rapist, you shouldnt get the death penalty
You: though im against the death penalty always
Stranger: well it all matters when the baby is aborted
Stranger: like when is the baby actually alive?
You: the baby is alive until the baby is aborted
Stranger: obviously if youre 8 months pregnant then you shouldn't be allowed to have an abortion
Stranger: no but i mean when is the baby a "baby" as opposed to "just a lump of cells"
You: y not?
Stranger: because you waited too long, the baby is already alive
Stranger: it has a brain, its fully developed. its a life. you procrastinated too long with the abortion
You: so, a baby isn't alive at 5 months?
Stranger: thats what im asking you
Stranger: when do we consider a baby to be alive
Stranger: to be a baby
Stranger: most say a baby isn't even a baby until it is physically born
You: if the baby wasn't alive, the baby wouldn't need food from the mom
Stranger: i like to think the baby is no longer a mass grouping of cells after you can determine a heartbeat and brainwaves
Stranger: since we use brainwaves and heartbeats to determine death
Stranger: i think we should use it to determine life also
You: we actually use brainwaves to determine death
You: but that's changed
You: it used to be a heartbeat
Stranger: thats why people can be in comas for so long and still be catagorized as alive
You: biologically, life is determined by growth, metabolism, and so on
Stranger: because there is still activity going on in the brain
You: if the baby was dead, he wouldnt need foof
Stranger: well we never really know the exact time in which the baby actually needs the food that the mother consumes
Stranger: i mean all cells need ATP to function which is provided by food
You: the baby needs the food from the time he implants
You: otherwise he couldnt grow
Stranger: but the baby can't get direct food from the mother until an embilical (sp?) cord is established
Stranger: and by then im pretty sure you already have brainwaves
You: very early on the baby imbeds into the uterine wall
You: and then grows
Stranger: the baby?
Stranger: i think yuo mean the sperm
You: no, the sperm goes into the egg
Stranger: the sperm only contains 50% of the genetic composition.
You: the sperm enters the egg
You: not hte uterine wall
Stranger: idk i think this is a personal question. i think that the baby is considered alive after brainwaves can be detected
You: okay, lemme go check when that is
You: because it's WAY before 8 months
Stranger: other people say life is determined by the oxygen it consumes
Stranger: yeah thats why most abortionists don't do abortions aftr the first trimester
Stranger: iwas just using 8 months as an example
Stranger: i don't think anything past the first 3 months is acceptable
You: well, oxygen enters the embryo from the moment of implantatio
Stranger: no hun
Stranger: there is no oxygen inside the sack
You: from the mother's bloodstream
Stranger: thats why a lot of women give birth to babies while they are in a pool
Stranger: and thats why the baby cries the second it comes out - because its being exposed to oxygen
Stranger: if it doesn't cry thats when the doctors get worried
You: when the baby is born, he or she switches the source of oxygen
Stranger: because it means that either a) the baby's lungs aren't working
Stranger: b) its already been exposed to oxygen in the sack which can lead to tremendous complications
You: before birth, the oxygen arrives through the mother
Stranger: not directly into the baby's lungs though
Stranger: im talking about actual "breathing"
Stranger: the operation of the respiratory system
Stranger: not the recieval of oxygen through blood cells
You: so, should it be okay to kill the baby after birth before he breaths?
Stranger: thats not what im saying
Stranger: im saying some people think its okay to do so
You: i dont think many people would say that
Stranger: i stand by what i said - life is determined by activity of brainwaves since death is determined by the lacking thereof
Stranger: there are extremists
You: yeah, i know
You: some people think its fine to kill babies up to a month after birth
Stranger: i think thats horrible
Stranger: that is completely unacceptable
Stranger: like i said im a prochoice but with severe restrictions
You: ok i found when the heart starts beating
Stranger: it should be after the first trimester i think
You: it's 3 weeks 1 day after fertilization
Stranger: what about brainwaves
You: im looking
You: 6 weeks, 2 days
Stranger: then anytime before then is okay
Stranger: anytime after that is a no
Stranger: for me at least
You: well, what makes brainwaves so important?
Stranger: because i think life and death are balanced counterparts
Stranger: a person is considered dead after the doctors can no longer detect activity in the brain
You: well, brainwaves are just a temporary legal definition of death
You: as i said, it used to be a heartbeat
Stranger: i believe a person is considered alive after the doctors can detect activity in the brain
You: biologically, there are 7 official signs of life
You: lemme find my textbook
Stranger: isn't it like
Stranger: stuff like that i don't remember i took bio two years ago
You: found it
You: cellular organization
Stranger: hha got one
You: growth and development
You: response to stimuli
Stranger: like yousaid though, these are just temporary definitions
You: no, those were the scientific definition
Stranger: through the religious aspect, i think its wrong to destroy a soul because i believe that its a power that belongs to Gpd
You: brainwaves are a legal definition
Stranger: they are still definitions none the less
Stranger: an aspect of science just waiting to be proven wrong
You: doesn't the soul live on, though?
Stranger: i guess its who you ask
You: thats what i understood the concept to be
Stranger: you can have an existentialist standpoint
You: im not religious myself
Stranger: or a more socratic one
Stranger: you should read the dialogues of socrates
Stranger: i read it earlier this year as a part of my ap english curriculum
Stranger: its a great read and it discusses the concepts of the "big questions"
You: if the legal community decided that brainwaves were no longer an adequate definition of life, would that change your mind?
Stranger: i move with science
You: Well, science already says brainwaves don't define life.
Stranger: i believe that the more new things are found, the more were closer to finding the exact truth
Stranger: it defines death though
You: Are tomatoes alive?
Stranger: and in my view they are almost one and the same
Stranger: the cells that compose them are
Stranger: because the nucleus (or the brain of the cells) have activity
Stranger: until it rots or dries out
You: can a tree die?
Stranger: *has activity lol sorry i cn't talk
Stranger: a tree in my backyard was said to even have "a tumor"
You: thats weird
Stranger: yup haha
Stranger: this was a really neat discussion you are one cool kid:)
You: did you cut it off?
You: the tumor?
Stranger: no it spread
You: what happened?
Stranger: we had to cut it down because the limbs started rotting
You: stupid tree cance
Stranger: and one limb almost fell on top of my brother while he was playing outside
You: holy ****
Stranger: so thats when we decided to cut it down
You: thats one evil tree tumor
Stranger: hahaha yes
You: so, the tree ended up dead?
Stranger: the roots still remain the the ground
Stranger: we never uprooted the tree
Stranger: we simply just cut off the stump
Stranger: im not sure, maybe the tree still lives underground
Stranger: waiting for the right time to sprout up again
You: can the tree die?
Stranger: i think it can
You: are you saying trees have brainwaves?
Stranger: no but again
Stranger: the cells that compose the tree have brainwaves due to the existence of the nucleus in each othe cells
You: im not sure that's right
Stranger: as long as the cells are still functioning (as defined by the signs of life) then i consider the tree to be alive
Stranger: its an opinionated question
You: then, by your logic, wouldn't the baby be alive?
Stranger: i think it will remain to be that way until we can prove it to be 100%
You: well, science has proved that the baby is alive
You: dead cells dont split
You: omg invader zim is amazing
Stranger: no because the brain is a bigger component. a tree doesn't act like a human because its not as complicated of an organism as a human. i think the brain (since it controls all of the systems) will determine life
Stranger: sorry back
Stranger: and to contradict what you say though
Stranger: a baby is entirely dependent on its host body (or the mother)
Stranger: it cannot reproduce on its own
Stranger: it cannot adapt to its surroundings
Stranger: although it shows some of the signs of life (like metabolism)
Stranger: it does not show all of them
Stranger: so how can we call it fully alive?
You: the embryo can adapt to its surroundings
Stranger: not entirely
You: what do you mean?
Stranger: it adapts like it knows how
Stranger: should the environment change however
Stranger: it wouldnt survive
You: the embryo regulates the interior of the cells to cope with the surroundings
Stranger: not to extremes though
Stranger: if the mother dies
You: not to extremes, of course.
Stranger: the baby can't survive
You: if the mother dies and the baby has some other way to get food and oxygen, the baby can survive
You: nobody can survive without oxygen
Stranger: hahaha so youre saying life is dtermined by oxygen
You: no, im not
You: but oxygen is needed for most life
Stranger: and the baby doesn't have the capability to find another way to get food and oxygen
Stranger: no it isn't
Stranger: not for green life
Stranger: plants need carbondioxide
Stranger: not oxygen
Stranger: the produce oxygen, but don't consume it
You: okay, animal life
Stranger: well why is animal life so different than plant life
Stranger: isn't life the same thing
Stranger: youre either alive or dead
Stranger: if thats not concrete idk what is ha
You: because animals are heterotrpphs while plants are autotrophs
Stranger: still beings that are alive
Stranger: that they consume, theyre biological composition doesn't matter
Stranger: life vs death
Stranger: you can't be in between
Stranger: or niether
You: so, the baby is dead?
Stranger: thats the question we're trying to solve here
Stranger: when its in its womb, if it isn't dead
Stranger: and it isn't alive
Stranger: then what is it
You: it is alive
You: dead things don't grow and develop
Stranger: says you
Stranger: and im not arguing with you
Stranger: all im saying is that at what point is it alive
Stranger: and at what point is it not
Stranger: alive things know how to reproduce
Stranger: the baby cannot reproduce before it is born
You: ever heard of twins?
Stranger: yeah why
Stranger: no way
Stranger: you are not suggesting what i think youre suggesting
You: asexual reproduction can happen very soon after fertilization
Stranger: that one fetus spawns the other?
Stranger: no wayyyy
Stranger: 2 sperm
Stranger: it happens
You: not with identical twins
Stranger: then its 2 sperms that enter
You: with identical twins, one embryo splits in two
You: if 2 sperm enter, the egg dies
You: that would be too much DNA
Stranger: hahah i love this discussion we are having but i have to go
Stranger: i have to help my mom
Your conversational partner has disconnected.