then go ahead, shoot it

You're now chatting with a random stranger. Say hi!

Stranger: HI

You: Hey there, Stranger.

You: How do you feel about abortion?

Stranger: It really brings out the kid in you

You: That was a horrible pun.

Stranger: :(

You: Seriously, though.

Stranger: I am fort it

Stranger: for it*

You: Why?

Stranger: Because I don't want fucked up kids walking around my neighbourhood

Stranger: HURR DURR I LIKE CAT *eats cat*

You: Then why stop at birth?

You: Why not shoot the little fuckers?

Stranger: Hell yeah

Stranger: shot it

Stranger: shoot it*

Stranger: And they get awards and privileges

Stranger: Cripple burns down school, It's alright your special - Regular Person burns down school, Jail

Stranger: And what do you think of abortion?

You: It's bad.

Stranger: And how so?

Stranger: ???

You: It's as bad as killing any person.

Stranger: But it isn't really a person

Stranger: it's like...a 1/4 person

You: How so?

You: It's the same person as a toddler, just younger.

Stranger: It's a fetus

You: Yes, and used to be an embryo and will be a toddler.

You: A fetus is a fetus and a toddler is a toddler; both are just different age ranges.

Stranger: Some teens also get pregnant very young

Stranger: so it can lead to 1 problem going away

Stranger: You don't want to be taking care of a kid while you are in high school

You: So someone should be killed for a mistake someone else made before they even existed?

Stranger: Yes

Stranger: For the sake of the pregnant girl

Stranger: You are smart, fellow stranger, I applaud you

You: So it's okay to kill an innocent person to make someone else's life easier?

Stranger: This "innocent person" was a mistake

Stranger: and is unwanted

You: So anyone who isn't wanted can be killed?

Stranger: In this case yes

Stranger: In other cases no

You: Why is this case special?

Stranger: Because to make an unwanted mistake dissapear to make life easier

You: If a dad realizes his daughter was a mistake, can he shoot her?

Stranger: He would go to jail, because it is a crime

Stranger: It's too late

You: Why is it too late?

You: Maybe he just found out about his daughter.

Stranger: Well if he would have realized this before she was born

You: Maybe her mother just found him and started asking for child support.

Stranger: Then get her child support

Stranger: but if nothing else can happen

Stranger: then it's an abortiobn

Stranger: abortion

You: But he can't get rid of an unwanted mistake to make life easier?

Stranger: He can

Stranger: Let's make a scenario and discuss it, A male and a female find out that the girl is pregnant at age 18, the male - know he can't take care of it - leaves his wife, in this situation it may be ok to get an abortion

Stranger: leaves his girlfriend*

Stranger: not wife

You: Okay.

You: And?

Stranger: And, abortion is okay in this situation

You: No, it is not.

You: What exactly did the baby do to deserve death?

Stranger: Nothing

Stranger: what did it to do deserve life?

You: What did a toddler do to deserve life?

Stranger: He wasn't a mistake, his parents liked him/her

You: What if the toddler was a mistake?

You: And his parents hate him?

Stranger: Then abortion

You: Why can't you kill him as a toddler?

Stranger: Because you would go to jail

Stranger: Because you took the life of something, in abortion you don't exactly take the life, you just make sure it doesnt continue to develop

You: Shooting him would stop the toddler from continuing to develop.

Stranger: but the toddler has a life

Stranger: the fetus doesn't exactly have a life

Stranger: it's still forming

You: The toddler is still forming too.

You: Not all his systems will be up and running until puberty.

Stranger: but it has a life

You: And the fetus doesn't?

You: Is the fetus dead?

Stranger: It's not living

Stranger: What is the purpose of this questioning?

You: If the fetus isn't living what's the umbilical cord for?

You: Dead things don't need food, water, and oxygen.

You: Dead cells don't divide either.

Stranger: =/

Stranger: Abortions are to make lives easier, the baby is unwanted and can't be taken care of or the parents don't want to take care of it

You: So what if killing an unwanted toddler makes your life easier?

Stranger: Well if it survives through birth, then it is most likely wanted

Stranger: Yes kiling an unwanted toddler can be easier

Stranger: killing*

You: Should parents be allowed to kill unwanted newborns?

Stranger: They can give it away

Stranger: Or abort it

You: Should parents be allowed to kill unwanted newborns if they can't care for them and killing them would make their lives easier?

Stranger: Yes

You: Should parents be allowed to kill unwanted toddlers if they can't care for them and killing them would make their lives easier?

Stranger: Yes

You: Should parents be allowed to kill unwanted kindergarteners if they can't care for them and killing them would make their lives easier?

Stranger: If it's there's?

Stranger: We are talking about the fetus, not the newborns or toddlers?

You: Should parents be allowed to kill their unwanted kindergarteners if they can't care for them and killing them would make their lives easier?

Stranger: No

You: How come?

Stranger: Because you can go to jail for it

Stranger: You can do it, you will just pay the consequences

You: Should it be legal?

Stranger: No

Stranger: That would promote murder

You: Why not?

Stranger:

You: Why can't the unwanted kindergartener be killed but the unwanted newborn can?

Stranger: The unwanted newborn can't

Stranger: Again, it's murder

You: What's the difference?

Stranger: Between

You: Between the newborn baby and the unborn baby.

Stranger: Unborn baby is unwanted and was a mistake, if it survived through that and is now a newborn that it is obviously wanted

You: I'm taking about unwanted newborns.

Stranger: Unborn baby = Abortion, Newborn,toddler, etc. = Give away

You: Not everyone finds out they're pregnant by the time they're giving birth.

Stranger: then give it away

You: Adoption takes a while.

Stranger: Well wait it out

You: Why can't the pregnant lady just wait it out and give up the baby?

Stranger: Maybe because she doesn't want pain when giving birth

Stranger: or maybe she wants to take flights but can't

You: There's a lot of trouble raising an infant too.

You: Why suffer that and wait for adoption when a bullet would solve their problem?

Stranger: Because then you can go to jail

You: If abortion was illegal, would that make it wrong?

Stranger: Make what wrong?

You: Abortion.

Stranger: I guess so,yeah

Stranger: but different countries have different laws

You: If it was legal to kill kindergarteners, would that make killing kindergarteners right?

Stranger: Not everything legal is right

Stranger: Marijuana can be legal but is still wrong

You: Okay, but everything illegal is wrong?

Stranger: Well, name something

You: You said that if abortion was illegal, it would become wrong.

Stranger: becuase you would have to face the consequence of going to jail

You: But would that make it WRONG?

Stranger: Yes

You: Should it be illegal to kill kindergarteners?

Stranger: It is illegal...

You: SHOULD it be?

Stranger: If it isn't yes, if it is keep it that way

You: Okay, should it be illegal to kill newborns?

Stranger: same answer

You: Okay, should it be illegal to kill unborn babies?

Stranger: No, if the parents know they will have a big difficulty raising it,they can get rid of it

Stranger: And, stem cells help people

You: But they can't kill a newborn baby if they know they will have a big difficulty raising it?

Stranger: Too late

You: Why?

Stranger: because it is already born into the world

You: So?

You: It's not like the fetus wasn't in the world before birth.

Stranger: the newborn is living his life

Stranger: it isn't born into the world

You: The unborn baby is living his life too.

Stranger: But when you grow up, on your birthday you don't say I'm 16 and 9 months old

You: I do.

Stranger: Your birthday isn't when your parents had sex, it's when you were born

You: I measure my age from my estimated date of conception.

You: Whenever I use my natal age, I specify it as such.

Stranger: Well, most people don't

You: But that's a cultural phenomenon that's got nothing to do with the moral worth of the unborn child.

Stranger: =/

You: Not all cultures measure age from birth.

Stranger: But most do

You: So?

You: You seriously think cultures have never been wrong?

You: What about when we embraced slavery?

You: Or racism in general?

You: Or sexism?

Stranger: Slavery gets shit done

Stranger: But would you say that abortion would be right for one of your friends who is 16 years old, still in school, failing her classes and already has a kid?

You: No.

Stranger: What would you recommend?

You: I'd recommend she find a local pregnancy resource center, and I'd do what I could to help her with adoption.

Stranger: What if she doesnt want to carry a baby for 9 months

Stranger: then end up leaving it

You: Then I'd suggest induced labor once viability is reached.

You: What if parents of an infant don't want to take care of the baby while adoption is sorted out?

Stranger: If adoption is sorted out then get rid of it

You: Yes, but adoption takes time,

You: In the meantime, they may not want to take care of the baby and then give her up.

Stranger: in what way, give her up?

You: For adoption.

Stranger: well then they'll have to wait it out

You: But what if they don't want to wait it out?

Stranger: Then what choices do they have?

You: They could shoot the kid.

Stranger: THey can't

You: Why not?

Stranger: Because they would get improsined

You: Why should they be imprisoned if they were just getting rid of a mistake?

Stranger: No

You: What if they don't want to feed and clothe a baby until adoption is finalized

You: then end up leaving it

Stranger: Then that's there choice

You: Should they be allowed to shoot the baby?

Stranger: No

You: Why not?

Stranger: Because it's murder

You: The baby is a mistake that they just want to get rid of.

You: Adoption would take time and require more effort.

Stranger: I smell bacon

Stranger: well as soon as it's born

Stranger: they can't kill it

You: Why not?

Stranger: It is illegal, I don't make laws

You: I didn't ask if it was allowed; I asked if it SHOULD be allowed.

Stranger: It should be allowed, abortion is allowed, murder isn't

You: Now, I've got nothing against vaginas, but passing through one doesn't change who you are.

Stranger: But all I know is once you pass through it, you can't be aborted, unless you are being aborted

You: Why is it okay to kill the baby on one side of the birth canal but not on the other?

Stranger: I'm not sure

You: It's the same baby.

You: It just moved.

Stranger: Well, I don't know stranger

You: If you're going to use it to justify killing people, you should know.

Stranger: I'm just for it

You: Okay imagine this.

You: Do you hunt?

Stranger: No

Stranger: But go on

You: Are you okay with hunting?

Stranger: Yeah

You: Okay.

You: Imagine this.

You: A hunter is out hunting with a few of his buddies and they decide to spread out.

You: One hunter sees a bush rustling, but doesn't know if it's a deer or a person.

You: Should he shoot?

Stranger: No

Stranger: Why risk losing a friend just for hunting?

You: Okay.

You: Imagine this, then.

You: Would you demolish a building if you didn't know if there was anyone inside?

Stranger: No

You: Would you say either of these actions (shooting the bush or demolishing the building) should be allowed?

Stranger: Unless proper information be given, then it shouldn't be allowed

You: Well.

You: You are unable to explain why changing location makes it wrong to kill the same baby.

You: Should we not air on the side of caution as with the hunter and demolition technician?

Stranger: I don't know why, neither do you

Stranger: I'm for it though

Stranger: Normally as the demoltion tech, you would be given info that all is clear

You: Yes, but before you get that info you can't blow it up.

Stranger: Yeah

Stranger: And before you get info whether it is a deer or person, you shouldn't shoot

You: But you can abort when you don't know if it's a person or not?

Stranger: It's a person

Stranger: It just...

You: Then why can it be killed?

Stranger: Because it is the mothers choice

Stranger: it is inside her

You: Why isn't it the mother's choice for the born baby?

Stranger: if a mother says "I need a heart transplant" she can do it, but if you give a random person a heart transplant without them even asking, you can't do it

Stranger: Because it isn't inside her anymore

You: She never asked the baby if it wanted to die.

Stranger: The mother can do anything to the baby when it inside her

Stranger: she can smoke,drink and abort

You: So she can murder anyone who's inside her?

Stranger: It is her "property" i guess you can put it, so yes

You: So all you need to do to own someone is to put them in your body?

Stranger: Not that way

Stranger: But it is in her ownership

Stranger: you can have a dog

Stranger: and have it put down

Stranger: because it is of your ownership

You: The fetus never asked to be in her body; its location and dependency are a result of actions beyond its control.

Stranger: The dog never asked to be bought

Stranger: Well it's too bad for it

Stranger: the sperm cell moved into the vagina

Stranger: which was unwanted

You: So anyone can kill anyone else that's inside them?

Stranger: yes

Stranger: Because it's their body

You: So if I put you in my body, I could kill you?

Stranger: How would you do that?

Stranger: You don't take what I say to the extreme

Stranger: you keep it simple

You: It doesn't matter how I do it.

You: Would it be okay?

Stranger: To abort yes, to put something in your body JUST to kill ity

Stranger: no

Stranger: it*

You: Why not?

You: You say it's fine to kill someone in your body even if you put them there in the first place.

You: Someone doesn't magically become property because of where they are.

Stranger: The mother has rights to do anything she wants to herself

You: But not to someone else.

Stranger: The government doesn't care about what's inside the mother therefore they let her do what she wants

You: The government didn't always care about women.

Stranger: Are you male or female?

You: It use to not technically be considered "rape" if done by her husband.

You: I'm female.

You: But that really doesn't matter.

Stranger: Well let's just say a girl was raped, and now is pregnant

You: Let's say I was male. I'm making the same argument.

Stranger: would you say an abortion would be necessary?

You: No, I would not. I know plenty of women who were concieved in rape.

Stranger: The child, being born, would have to live with the guilt of having his dad be a criminal and never seeing him. Being a mistake

You: They aren't subhuman because of a crime committed before they existed.

Stranger: Made from the pain of the mothe

Stranger: mother*

Stranger: I'm not saying they are subhuman

Stranger: but can you imagine living with that in your head?

You: I don't have to; I have friends who do.

Stranger: Your friends were born from rape?

You: Not all of my friends, of course.

Stranger: Yeah I know that

Stranger: but one was?

You: A couple.

You: Juda was concieved when her mother was gangraped by 8 men.

Stranger: O.O

You: She donsn't feel guilty for what happened before she existed.

Stranger: Guilty was the wrong word to use

Stranger: I just mean't living with your dad being a criminal, not seeing him, knowing your a mistake

You: Irene was concieved of rape and later aborted a rape baby, which she really regrets.

Stranger: You were not meant to be, what you are now

You: She's glad she's alive.

You: You're sure quick to make judgements about who is worthy of not being killed.

Stranger: You are just saying it because of your friends

Stranger: What did other Strangers say to your question, or am I your first?

You: What do you mean?

Stranger: Did you ask this question to other people?

Stranger: on omegle

You: Yeah, a few.

Stranger: And what did they say?

You: Some were for, some against.

You: Some were just trolls.

Stranger: Some were trolls, lol, I was expecting all trolls

You: LOL

Stranger: And, I'm just curious, why are you asking this?

You: Some were real flaky and couldn't answer my questions.

Stranger: lol

You: I'm asking because Omegle deserves more intelligent conversations.

Stranger: Instead of "m or f, ur an f? wana cyber?!?!?"

You: Exactly.

You: But being conceived of rape in no way makes you unworthy of life.

Stranger: I know

Stranger: But if the mother doesn't want her child growing up with these thoughts

Stranger: or maybe she wasn't ready to raise a child

You: So a baby can be killed if she MAY grow up with some unhappy thoughts?

Stranger: In any situation, would you recommend an abortion to anyone?

Stranger: Well maybe the mother doesn't want her/him to suffer, or just because she can't support a child

Stranger: not because being a rape baby makes you subhuman and unworthy of life

You: That assumes they'll suffer.

You: And everyone's gonna suffer in their life. We don't have a crystal ball to tell how much.

Stranger: In any situation would you recommend an abortion?

You: It depends on how you define abortion.

You: If in trying to save one's life, the other dies, that is tragic but acceptable.

Stranger: What do you mean?

Stranger: I mean killing the baby

You: If the baby dies in an attempt to save the mother's life, that is okay.

Stranger: ok

You: All effort should go towards saving both lives.

Stranger: Would you recommend an abortion if you think parents aren't suitable for taking on a child?

Stranger: Say the mother smokes and drinks while the father does drugs and beats his wife, always cheating on her

You: No more than I would recommend infanticide for the same couple.

You: If they can't kill their newborn baby for reason X, they cannot kill their unborn baby for reason X.

Stranger: Okay

You: I find it absurd to class a person as property.

Stranger: =/

You: And, frankly, I find it offensive.

Stranger: So you find what I say offensive?

You: Yes.

Stranger: :(

Stranger: But people have been property for hundreds of years

Stranger: and some can still be

You: So slavery was okay?

Stranger: back then

Stranger: it was

You: What?

Stranger: A long time ago, slavery was okay

You: It's not okay any more?

Stranger: In some places it could be

You: So all that needs to happen for abortion to not be okay is for people to agree that it's not okay?

Stranger: I guess so

Stranger: People fought against slavery

You: So was the Holocaust okay?

Stranger: whether it was black people or white people

You: People are fighting against abortion.

Stranger: so htye abolished it in most countries

Stranger: Yes

Stranger: I know

Stranger: But some people don't care

Stranger: Because it doesn't affect them in any way

You: Ah.

You: Wait.

You: The Holocaust was okay‽

Stranger: No

Stranger: Some people may believe it was

Stranger: it can be argued

Stranger: just like we are argueing now

Stranger: But abortion isn't really a big thing

Stranger: Slavery was huge

Stranger: starting a 5 year war

You: There was only a war because people opposed slavery.

You: Without the abolitionists, the Civil War couldve been avoided

Stranger: But with how it affected so many people

Stranger: someone always has to oppose something

You: Abortion KILLED so many people

You: Abortion makes the Holocaust look like a box of kittens.

Stranger: Holocaust was worse

You: Do you know how many people died in the Holocaust?

Stranger: 7 million

You: 11 million.

You: 6 million Jews.

You: Do you know how many people are killed by abortion every year?

Stranger: But this isn't done by one man, or one organization

You: No, but it is still done.

Stranger: But the problem is too many people dont care

Stranger: and if a war is started, who will it go against?

Stranger: Hospitals?

You: Lots of people didn't care about the Holocaust.

You: It took Pearl Harbor to bring the US into WW2

Stranger: But the holocaust didn't start because of a war

You: Actually, that's debatable.

You: The Nazis wouldn't have been able to come to power so easily without WW1.

Stranger: I guess it can be

Stranger: But the war started before the holocaust

You: It was the forced raparations and economic destabilization that lead to the Holocaust.

You: But that's off topic.

You: You think that a person can be property?

Stranger: No

Stranger: I just couldn

Stranger: I just couldnt put it in any other way

You: You said the baby was her property.

Stranger: The mother has full control of the baby that she is feeding and taking care of

You: Why?

You: I mean the parents are feeding and taking care of the newborn while adoption is sorted out.

Stranger: But that's until it is given away

You: And pregnancy is until birth.

You: Both are temporary conditions until custody can be given up.

You: Both involve a baby who you readily admit is a person.

Stranger: one would rather abort then wait for an adoption

You: What if they'd rather shoot the newborn than wait for adoption?

Stranger: then go ahead, shoot it

You: Really?

Stranger: Yeah

You: Go ahead and shoot the newborn baby?

Stranger: their choice not mine

You: How about shooting a kindergartener?

Stranger: Okay, shoot the kindergartener for no reason

Stranger: Go right into a school, find one and shoot it

You: Really?

Stranger: Yeah

Stranger: I don't know

Stranger: Again, it's their choice

You: You're not serious.

Stranger: I am serious...

Stranger: I have been serious through this whole chat

Stranger: Why would you bring in shooting kindergarteners, hell, why would you bring in shooting?

You: Because it's the same person as the baby, just older.

Stranger: So why shoot it?

You: Why not?

Stranger: A gun is expensive

You: If you've already got a gun, why not?

You: I mean abortion is expensive too.

Stranger: But you can risk going to jail

You: You can get a gun that will do the job for much less than an abortion.

You: If you have an abortion in the wrong country the same thing could happen

Stranger: So you are saying shooting kids with a gun is more efficient than abortion?

You: I'm saying it costs less.

You: And accomplishes a dead kid just the same.

Stranger: But with a chance of going to jail

You: If abortion was illegal, the same would apply to it.

Stranger: yes

You: Should parents be allowed to save money by shooting unwanted kids?

You: If not, why not?

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Frankly, there is nothing wrong with murder

You're now chatting with a random stranger. Say hi!

You: Hey.

Stranger: hello

You: Did you hear about Zoe Ball?

Stranger: no. whats that?

You: A baby in Australia.

Stranger: ok, well im sorry. i live in canada.

You: She was recently killed in utero when her mother was run down by a drunk driver.

Stranger: oh damn

You: But the New South Wales law basically says they never existen.

You: she never existed*

Stranger: how?

You: They won't let her parents file a murder or manslaughter charge.

Stranger: what kind of law is that??

You: A stupid one.

You: And Zoe was 8 months!

Stranger: obviously. i mean what the fuck?

Stranger: what does the law state?

You: Since Zoe hadn't taken her first breath the law didn't recognize her as human.

Stranger: oh. she wasn't born yet

You: Yeah.

Stranger: still, the driver should have been prosecuted

You: I said "killed in utero".

You: The police report did not even mention Zoe's death!

Stranger: maybe it hadn't been confirmed?

You: No, the law in Australia just doesn't give a shit about you if you haven't been born.

Stranger: um north america has a political party that is the same way

You: That's stupid.

Stranger: im guessing you're anti-abortion?

You: Yeah, I am.

Stranger: i honestly think that after 3 months, when the child has consciousness, the mother should no longer be able to abort it

You: What do you mean by "consciousnedd"?

You: ss*

Stranger: if the child can have thoughts, or can learn at that stage, then it should be considered human

You: What do you mean by "thoughts"?

Stranger: but before that, i think the mother should be able to abort

You: Because before about a year after birth, a baby's "thoughts" are below that of some animals.

Stranger: even so, animals have rights

You: So, you think that someone gets rights based on their mental capabilities?

Stranger: no, i think that the world is overpopulated, and some people get pregnant without intention.

Stranger: condoms are not perfect.

You: So you think that it's okay to kill people to reduce the population?

Stranger: lol absolutely. born or not, it has to be done. People die all the time. Death is the only real certainty. I don't look at it with a cynical point of view

Stranger: i mean, i wouldn't volunteer, but if it happened to me, that's the way it goes

You: Seriously?

Stranger: are you a christian?

You: No, I'm not.

Stranger: atheist?

You: Yes.

Stranger: same as me

You: I'm a humanist, though.

You: I like to be moral and I don't like solving problems with violence.

Stranger: what do you believe the meaning of life is?

You: I think the meaning of life is whatever you make it.

Stranger: exactly. it's your perception

Stranger: there is no truth in morality

You: Should it be legal just to go on a raping spree?

Stranger: morality is nice, but it's a social code of conduct, which is easily dropped when times are tough

Stranger: no, that would disrupt society greatly

You: so?

Stranger: societies are just like a bee hive

Stranger: the workers get enough to live, and work all their lives

Stranger: knowing that the hive doesnt give a fuck about them

You: okay, should it be legal for parents to kill their children up to 6 years of age if they get too expensive?

Stranger: and when they die, they die with the delusion that they made a difference. That their life meant something

Stranger: people used to do it.

You: Should they be allowed to?

Stranger: the only difference is now society says it's wrong

You: Society is starting to say abortion is wrong.

Stranger: No, if they did that, humanity itself might be in danger

Stranger: well society has gone too far the wrong way

Stranger: they went from being too tough to being pussies

You: So should it be legal to kill a 6-year-old?

Stranger: I don't go by social standards. i go by my own

Stranger: i already said no

You: Why not?

Stranger: but for logical reasons, not moral ones

Stranger: you like to feel moral because you feel good

Stranger: so feel good about yourself when living people are starving to death because of a bastard child that a whore couldn't abort.

You: Why can't you kill a toddler that you can't feed, then?

Stranger: it's not accepted in our society. not all

You: Abortion is starting to be not accepted in our society.

Stranger: by some

Stranger: not all

You: Okay, how about slavery?

Stranger: christianity is also widely accepted in our society

You: Should slavery be allowed?

You: For a long time, slavery was embraced by society.

Stranger: there's no need of it. We all work for the ones who don't pay taxes. Slavery is still embraced, just hidden in a fascism

You: Sigh. I'm talking about actual, chains-and-whips-and-plantations slavery.

Stranger: well that's hard to answer

Stranger: i guess it doesn't matter. as long as it helps humanity, but even then it means nothing

Stranger: i mean the pyramids and the collosseum were built by slaves

You: Not true, actually.

Stranger: yes it is

Stranger: lol

You: Watch the History Channel. We recently discovered they were built by regular workers.

Stranger: i watch the history channel. it's not always right

You: But what good are the pyramids?

Stranger: the nostradamus effect for instance

You: They could've done the same thing with a small hole and a headstone.

Stranger: it was their religious belief.

You: So?

Stranger: btw what does this have to do with abortion?

You: You said that abortion was okay because society accepts it.

You: Society accepted slavery.

You: Society in the middle east accepts stoning rape victims.

You: Society is often horribly, horribly wrong.

Stranger: sry

Stranger: looking at something

Stranger: but if what you say is true, then you could be wrong

Stranger: there is not a damn thing you can say scientifically that says what is morally right

Stranger: other than "it's wrong"

You: So does that mean we should go into a state of anarchy where anyone can kill anyone at any age for any reason?

Stranger: that's not what im suggesting at all. You're missing the point

You: Well if morality is nonexistent what would be wrong with it?

Stranger: You think that understanding of morality means the full collapse of society

Stranger: but i'd like to show you that you are immoral. and it's ok

Stranger: please name one thing you've done selflessly

You: I've never killed anyone.

Stranger: that's not selfless. you did it because you knew if u did kill someone you'd get arrested and feel bad. That's fear of punishment

You: I wouldn't kill anyone even if it was legal.

Stranger: you calculated the pros and cons

Stranger: you say that now, because you think you'd feel bad

Stranger: you think you're better than an animal?

You: No, I don't.

You: Animals automatically behave according to a moral code that's in their genes.

You: I have the option to "sin".

Stranger: well animals kill what they need to survive. There is no moral code. it's instinct to survive

Stranger: they want to live, and every species is competing for dominance

You: Animals don't kill eachother willy nilly.

Stranger: untrue

Stranger: animals kill for territory

You: Animals even form societies to protect one another.

Stranger: yes, to survive

Stranger: it's a selfish need

Stranger: an instinct

You: yes

You: correct.

Stranger: so you've not refuted anything i've said

You: What did you say?

Stranger: that moral codes do not exist. They are rules pushed into our brains when we were young.

Stranger: Frankly, there is nothing wrong with murder

You: There isn't?

Stranger: nope

You: Okay.

You: Here's my offer.

You: Would you vote for a pro-murder politician?

You: Would you sign a law decriminalizing rape?

Stranger: noo. but not because murder is wrong. because that would have a negative effect on me, and anyone around me, which would inevitably affect me

You: Okay, how old are you?

Stranger: does that matter?

You: Yes, it does.

Stranger: im 16.

You: Would you vote for a politician who supported murdering and/or raping those 15 and under?

Stranger: i already answered you.

You: You're 16.

You: I said 15 and under.

Stranger: noo. but not because murder is wrong. because that would have a negative effect on me, and anyone around me, which would inevitably affect me

Stranger: i know people 15 and under

You: How young is your youngest friend?

Stranger: if it were people i don't know, probably not. im not completely without moral fiber, and if it takes the little effort of marking a paper, why not?

Stranger: after all, you can't wipe someone completely once they've been brainwashed

You: Okay, you vote for a politician who supported murdering and/or raping those 2 and under?

Stranger: na. i want to have a kid one day

You: So?

Stranger: i don't want him/her to be raped

You: Okay, then would vote for a politician who supported murdering those 2 and under

Stranger: i said no

Stranger: because i want kids

You: Okay, then would vote for a politician who supported murdering those 0 and under

Stranger: look man, we can continue the what if game, but the simple fact is, i use my calculations the same way u use morals, but i throw out the bullshit reasoning.

You: If you want to have a baby, how would you feel if she was killed like Zoe was?

Stranger: obviously terrible. but manslaughter is not abortion

Stranger: only the mother should eb able to abort the child

Stranger: be*

You: why?

Stranger: because it's her responsibility

Stranger: it's her pain

Stranger: it's her life,

You: It's your responsibility too.

Stranger: the father shouldn't have a say. That would be taking the mother's freedom of choice away

You: The father doesn't get a choice?

Stranger: he has the choice to stay or go

You: What about child support?

Stranger: well as i said, if the mother had 3 months to abort it, knew the father wouldn't be around, then he shouldn't pay

Stranger: my mother raised me alone without it.

You: Not everyone knows their pregnant by 3 months.

Stranger: and if they don't then they're stuck with it

Stranger: she should get tested

You: That's not taking the mother's freedom of choice away?

Stranger: well it would at that point be murder

Stranger: when she has it, she can give it up for adoption

You: I thought there was nothing wrong with murder.

Stranger: not morally, but legally

You: Okay, so whatever the law says goes?

Stranger: lol you think otherwise?

You: Because the law says abortion is also okay after 3 months.

Stranger: it's not a choice. if you break the law, you go to jail or pay a fine.

Stranger: now it does yes,

Stranger: i disagree with both sides

You: Okay, so what's wrong with killing a 6-month fetus?

Stranger: it can think.

You: So can an adult.

Stranger: it now has the main human trait

You: But you said there's nothing wrong with murder.

Stranger: i feel like im running in circles lol

Stranger: LEGALLY it's prohibited

Stranger: MORALLY, fuck it

You: But LEGALLY it's okay to kill a 6-month fetus.

Stranger: i said i disagree

You: How can you disagree with it?

You: LEGALLY it's okay, and MORALLY all murder is fine.

Stranger: no morally, im indifferent

Stranger: which leaves it to legallity

You: But it's legal to kill a 6-month fetus.

You: What basis do you have to oppose killing said fetus.

Stranger: murder is illegal

You: Yes, but abortion is not.

Stranger: i never said the law is perfect

You: But without morality what do you have to compare the law with?

Stranger: but killing something that can't think is hardly murder

Stranger: i don't need anything. Legallity in itself is a self-justifying system in many cases

You: Okay.

Stranger: btw how old r u?

You: 17.

You: You disagree with the law on 3-9 month fetuses.

You: How so?

Stranger: i've stated it about 12 times. i can;t do it again

You: If it is both morally and legally acceptable.

Stranger: because if people say murder is illegal, i agree. If people say that women should not be stuck with children they can't afford, i agree

Stranger: this is a compromise

You: The law allows abortions at 4 months, and according to you morality allows murder at ANY age.

Stranger: ah 4 months is close enough

You: 6 months then.

Stranger: morality is not something you can argue

Stranger: it's why neither of us can win this arguement. you keep your extremist opinion, and refuse my compromise

You: I just want to know what you're basing this position on.

You: It's not law and it's not morality.

You: What's the third option?

Stranger: Just because i want it legal, doesn't mean it's not a legal position, and you're right, it's not moral

You: Huh?

Stranger: the law changes. this is the way i want it to be

Stranger: so that it is fair in all positions

You: Okay, so you're talking about what the law should be.

You: So what do you base this desire on?

You: Something outside the law, obviously.

Stranger: the law is used to keep fairness. i dont hold my opinion strongly. Frankly, i hope i never need abortion, but it's possible

You: Okay, so your opinion is based on fairness?

Stranger: yes.

You: Is it fair for a woman to be denied an abortion just because she found out she was pregnant too late?

Stranger: yes. she wasn't careful enough.

You: Is it fair for a woman to be denied an abortion at 2 and a half months??

Stranger: nope

You: she wasn't careful enough either.

You: both got pregnant.

Stranger: but the child didn't suffer

Stranger: he didnt feel anything

Stranger: therefore he didnt exist

You: Is abortion at 9 months fair if the child is anesthetized?

Stranger: no. it can still think

Stranger: it was alive

Stranger: that's like saying "is it ok to kill a human if he's asleep?"

You: And the 2-month baby is not alive?

Stranger: morally, sure, but legally, nope

Stranger: a fucking tree is alive

Stranger: doesnt make it special

You: Why does mental capacity make you special?

Stranger: because it differenciates you from a tree.

You: So does size and mobility.

Stranger: you cant be mobile without a brain

Stranger: and do u think anyone would care about you if you stood in the yard all damn day?

Stranger: no matter how big u are

Stranger: ive been on defense this whole arguement and it's kinda boring.

You: So what's so special about mental capability that distinguishes it from all the other differences between you and a tree?

You: Species also distinguishes us from a tree.

Stranger: because without it, you would not argue, you could not laugh, or cry or feel. you would not be human.

Stranger: Frankly i don't care if a braindead person dies

You: I would be human.

Stranger: not to me

You: Every cell in my body would still be screaming "Homo s. sapiens"

Stranger: the cells that can't speak. the ones that die all the time and don't amount to shit.

Stranger: people die all the time. might as well get used to it

Stranger: it will NEVER change

You: But it's not fair to kill people.

Stranger: how? death is unbias. IF you die because you pissed someone off, you paid the consequences

Stranger: if you die from cancer, that's unfair too

Stranger: death is random

You: So you think murder is fair but abortion at 5 months isn't?

Stranger: a living person has a chance to live.

You: A 3-month fetus is alive.

Stranger: it hasn't thought or experienced anything

Stranger: it doesnt hurt

Stranger: it doesnt care

You: A person under anesthesia doesn't hurt or care either

Stranger: ive adressed this already

Stranger: besides, why not kill someone under anesthesia? he's lived.

You: Okay, so all that matters is if you've experienced something?

Stranger: it's fair to the mother that she gets a chance to escape poverty, and it's fair that the child get's a chance to live.

Stranger: there is no other way that offers both

Stranger: you've taken the side of a fetus over a human

You: What species would you class a human's fetus as?

Stranger: i mean a real person

You: The mother who finds out she's pregnant at 4 months has no chance to escape poverty.

Stranger: not a mass of flesh that isn't even alive

Stranger: well that mother had a chance and blew it

You: If the fetus isn't alive, why does it need food?

You: The fetus that's killed at 2.9 months gets no chance to live.

Stranger: need i use the tree analogy again?

You: A tree is alive.

Stranger: would you save it over a human?

You: No, I wouldn't.

You: What species would you class a human's fetus as?

Stranger: human, but it's more similar to a tree.

Stranger: but why not save a tree over a human?

You: We've established that the fetus is human

You: And is alive.

Stranger: a tree is alive

You: A tree is not human.

Stranger: so?

Stranger: what makes u better than a tree? u asked the same question.

You: I'm not better than a tree. I only ask for protection from my fellow humans.

You: If I was a tree, I'd save the tree over the human.

Stranger: so your moral code is exclusive?

You: My moral code applies to intraspecies conduct.

Stranger: so it is

Stranger: so you're looking at species. i look at individuals

You: Individuals make up a species.

Stranger: i'd rather save my dog than some people. is that morally wrong?

You: In addition, "species" is a characterisitc of individuals

You: yes

Stranger: so you are bias

You: Not horribly wrong, though.

Stranger: doesnt matter

You: I'm more concerned about direct aggression.

You: If you would choose to kill a person over a dog, that is immoral.

Stranger: i dont care. your moral code says save humans over animals, even though you say you are not better and humans are no better

Stranger: in my world, that is called hypocracy

You: No, my moral code says to prefer my own species.

You: If I was a dog, I'd save the dog.

Stranger: but you're not a dog, you're not a fetus, and you're not a mother

You: I used to be a fetus.

You: I am a human.

Stranger: the mother was a fetus too

You: Yes, and I wouldn't kill her either.

You: Thus, my morality tells me to stick up for other humans.

Stranger: but u prefer the fetus over the mother

You: No.

You: If a fetus wanted to abort his mother, I'd standup for the mother.

Stranger: it's death u have a problem with

You: I have a problem with violence.

Stranger: what do u believe happens after death?

You: I don't know.

Stranger: what do u think?

You: I've never died.

Stranger: well you've never been a mother, you cant remember being a fetus and you've never died...

You: I don't remember being 2 either, but I can still say it's wrong to kill toddlers.

Stranger: but you'd kill every toddler in the world if it meant saving yourself

You: So what?

Stranger: it's a strawman

Stranger: your moral code is easily dropped

You: I don't think rationally under pressure.

You: That's why we have laws.

Stranger: now you've had 2 hours, and you've not convinced me

You: If we could trust people to be moral, we wouldn't need the law.

Stranger: give me one reason why killing babies is wrong?

You: Just one?

Stranger: yep .one irrefutable one

You: It deprives them of their future, as does murder at any age.

Stranger: but why is that matter?

You: Why does it matter that a tree can't think?

You: Killing babies also goes against the biological origin of the very concept of morality.

Stranger: lol biological origin?

You: Yes.

You: Morality evolved as a survival instinct for species.

Stranger: instincts and morals are not the same

You: Without the instincts we'd have no concept of "right" and "wrong"

Stranger: you know right from wrong because you were told

Stranger: not because you evolved

You: Even babies have morals.

You: Animals too.

Stranger: no they don't

Stranger: they have instincts

You: And where exactly did my parents get the knowledge of right and wrong?

Stranger: from their parents

You: Where did the concept originate?

Stranger: and over time, as it benefitted more people, they made up better moralities

Stranger: and passed them on like a religion

You: Where did my grandparents learn of morality?

Stranger: sorry, but im done this retarded conversation. bye :)

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